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Mojofc
Post #1
Wednesday May 20, 2015 1:16am

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 966
So I assume everyone knows Chelsea has won the EPL this season and recently lost heavily to West Brom. Mourinhno came out after the game stating that's more or less what happens when the competition is essentially over for their team.

The media also came out and agreed, even the USA soccer media.

Starting this season 12 teams make the playoffs.
20 teams are in the league.

Does having 12/20 teams making the playoff make many of the regular seasons games lack true competition?

Does anyone feel the players don't whether they intend to or not take certain plays off because let's be honest... A win here or there doesn't really matter all that much. Losing a regular season game means extremely little in the MLS.

Loving soccer ever since I was young I always looked at baseball for example in terms of #'s and wondered why they even have the regular season of 150+ games when it mattered zero as long as you made the playoffs. The 150+ games are more or less preseason getting your team fine tuned and hoping to better your odds by ranking higher to face lesser competition until later in the playoffs. All in all though if you're the top team in the nation you hope to beat out the top competition anyways.

Who would like to see MLS go to euro style tables or at least less teams in the playoffs? (End result would more or less require Pro/Rel).

Playoffs... Again another issue. Non playoff players play many less matches. Doesn't help the players progress does it?

Didn't want to spend too much time on this post but it's something I think of a lot. Typing on my phone we'll see how well this came across later...
Rain, rain, go away Come again another day - USMNT, MUFC
2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #2
Wednesday May 20, 2015 2:05am

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 10,452
No thanks on the Euro style.

Having more teams make the playoffs now makes it seem less when 24 teams are in the league. I don't see Garber adding anymore playoff teams as MLS expands the league.

I love playoffs. Personally I think euro leagues lack something without playoffs.

Last year it was awesome having so many teams still in the play off hunt heading into October it made must watch TV for a month. And then the playoffs itself was quite entertaining.

Bayern Munich hasn't had to really compete for about a month and half now int eh Bundesliga.

Chelsea doesn't have to compete anymore in the EPL

Barca doesn't have to compete anymore in La Liga

Juventus hasn't had to compete in Serie A for the past moth and half.

Mojofc
Post #3
Wednesday May 20, 2015 2:20am

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 966
You could say some MLS teams don't have to compete for 1/3 of the season if they start very well.

I'm not saying playoffs aren't entertaining, I think they have their place: Tournaments.

Soccer (table style) is mathematically the most accurate way to have a champion. Letting teams play home/away in playoffs allows for error in terms of letting the best team through. I realize that makes for excitement at times. Growing up a soccer fan I personally have never enjoyed other sports looking at playoffs for their champion, it makes regular season almost meaningless and causes competition issues.

We already have MLS issues: less games for players that miss the playoffs, 1/2 making the playoffs so many of the regular season games doesn't mean all that much... Like it or not this alters a players mindset from game to game as people are people and have faults.

Not claiming to be 'right' on this topic either, just a strong opinion I have on this in a negative light towards MLS.

Pro/Rel has all sorts of issues in terms of analyzing if now is the right time or not for this country. If we don't allow Pro/Rel at some point in our lifetimes we will greatly be holding back the sport in this country. Having a max amount of teams at the top level and to ever be able to make it to the top level limits investment in cities that don't have MLS teams. 30 years from now having teams in every decent city in Texas, California, etc would be huge for the sport. Many wouldn't be D1 but they would all strive to be thus attempt to develop top players.

If the end goal is simply for MLS to be a top league one day, do we honestly only want ~30 teams to be competing across the entire United States? Seems a waste.
Rain, rain, go away Come again another day - USMNT, MUFC
2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #4
Wednesday May 20, 2015 2:56am

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 10,452
I think pro/rel is overrated. Not saying they shouldn't at some point consider it, but I don't think it as effective as some think.

TheTruth
Post #5
Wednesday May 20, 2015 3:02am

Joined Dec 2013
Total Posts: 950
Sweet Jesus, you typed that first post on your phone!?! Impressive. You must have been in a long line.

Jzaval01
Post #6
Wednesday May 20, 2015 3:54am

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 3,315
Original post from 2tone

I think pro/rel is overrated. Not saying they shouldn't at some point consider it, but I don't think it as effective as some think.


I think the relegation part isnt as exciting as people say. Wont waste my time seeing which of the worst teams in the league will go down. Usually horrible football hence reason they are their. As for promotion that is def exciting seeing top teams from another league hence new teams

admsghs27
Post #7
Wednesday May 20, 2015 4:54am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 6,060
Many people forget the top Euro clubs Don't really have competition for about 70-80 % of the season since they play very inferior teams. As for MLS Anyone can win on any given day theoretically one of the hardest leagues to predict by far.

MSantoine
Post #8
Wednesday May 20, 2015 12:27pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,723
Tackling one of the two different points.

1) Euro Teams in most leagues that don't have playoffs do more taking weeks off then MLS teams. Teams like Sparta, Benfica, Porto, Rangers, Celtic, Dynamo Kiev, Olympiakos, Moscow, galatsary, fenerbeche, etc never have to worry about reg season and care about there hard 2-4 matches a year, there domestic cup final, and mainly focusing on UCL.

Turkey- Gala or Fenerbeche have won 8 of the last 10 turkish titles.
Ukraine- Kiev or Shanktar have won every title since 1992. In fact those two were 1 & 2 every year since 1996 except the last two years Kiev finished 3rd (won this year)
Greece- Olympiakos has won every title except two since 96(Panthinikos won those two)
Switzerland- basel won 6 straight and only them or Zurich have won titles since they rebranded in 2003.
Austria- Since Red Bull rebranded theyve won 6 of 9 titles, finishing 2nd each time they didnt win.
Czech- Sparta Prague has won or been runner up every year in its existence except twice, with 12 titles out of 21 seasons.
Romania- The two Bucreasti teams have won 43 times combined, with 33 runner up appearances combined.

Thats just a sample. Most leagues are like that. Without playoffs MLS could fall into that trap and who wants a league where only one-two teams win every year?

recycledhumans
DFWTX
Post #9
Wednesday May 20, 2015 3:04pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,467
Original post from Jzaval01

I think the relegation part isnt as exciting as people say. Wont waste my time seeing which of the worst teams in the league will go down. Usually horrible football hence reason they are their. As for promotion that is def exciting seeing top teams from another league hence new teams


I think you're missing the point when it comes to the relegation battle...it doesn't particularly matter for the neutral, as you point out, but for the supporters of those clubs, it adds a new dimension of drama and excitement.

There's a reason you see stadiums filled with teary-eyed or outright bawling supporters over in England around this time of year...

MSantoine
Post #10
Wednesday May 20, 2015 5:02pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,723
Depends on the year. Lots of times the bottom team or two knows they are being relegated my april. Usually its only 3-4 teams that have that pressure. No different then the 3-4 teams fighting for playoffs in MLS

Kamphgruppe
Michigan
Post #11
Wednesday May 20, 2015 6:25pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 874
I really like playoffs as opposed to single table. I remember a couple of years ago and the last regular season game of the year all but 2 teams could still make the playoffs. Every game was worth watching. It is not currently that difficult to make the playoffs in MLS but when we have 24 to 30 teams it will be. People often say that there is less strategy is a playoff systems because the regular season does not matter as much. I think you have to employ a different kind of strategy but it does not make it any less valuable. Regular season games do matter even if there is a lot of leeway right now on losses and ties and still making the playoffs.

Single table is so boring to me. 1/3 of the way into the season so much doesn't matter anymore. 3 or 4 teams maybe still have a shot at the title. mid table teams are trying to stay consistent so they don't approach the relegation zone. The relegation teams are the worst teams in the league. I guess I don't get as pumped up about watching the worst teams. On top of that in most leagues you only have 3 or 4 top teams anyway and it was never a question of which teams would be there anyway. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. Give me MLS and playoffs any day.

dolcem
Post #12
Wednesday May 20, 2015 8:17pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,805
Two things we have to remember. First of all, we are all used to the franchise/playoffs system since that's what we grew up with, so that's what most of us are going to like more. Having said that, there are some very misinformed posts here. The bottom 5-7 teams are all usually within danger of relegation until the last month. Even if the chance is slight, they have everything to play for. At the other end, usually two or three are fighting for the title, and teams 3-6 are fighting for the Champions League. After that, you have teams fighting for the Europa League. The entire table, aside from a few teams in the middle, has a lot to play for until the last month (and even then, they still have cup games). This is a huge contrast from American sports, where the bottom teams have nothing to play for pretty much all season long, and neither do the top teams, who have already qualified for the playoffs. Regardless, the entire regular season consists of games that have no bearing on silverware...they are just qualification for another tournament (playoffs). There are far more meaningless games under the franchise season than under the single table format.

Second, the single table structure makes more sense for smaller countries. Portugal only really has two large cities...it would make no sense for them to have 30 mediocre teams in a league with a salary cap and parity. Realistically, they're going to have about two really big teams in Lisbon and maybe one in Porto. The US, on the other hand, is massive, and its population distribution is incredibly spread out over a large number of cities very far apart from each other. Rather than have huge sections of the country without a team playing at the highest level (or competing for silverware), it makes more sense for us to have a big league with lots of teams on an even footing. Promotion and relegation simply will not work in the US, and certainly not in soccer. Thus, the playoffs are necessary; without them, the majority of the league will have nothing to play for all season long. The Eurosnobs that complain about this are ignorant (no owners will invest in the MLS if there's pro/rel).

The only issue is though that this puts us at a disadvantage. In any other country, the graduated tier system enables players and coaches to climb the ladder as they develop until they reach the top and move to a better league (aside from Spain, Germany, or England). They start at whatever level is right for them and can move their way up at their own pace. In US soccer, this isn't possible. When young players graduate from academies, they are in an awkward position. They're probably not quite good enough to play in the MLS but without a reserve league or second division, there's nowhere for them to play. Sure, they can go on loan to a USL team, but the standard is too low and the style of play too primitive. Coaches face the same problem. Moreover, in any other league, a player works his way up until he is playing for one of the top teams and is surrounded by the league's best players playing quality soccer. Soccer isn't like American sports; a player surrounded by mediocre teammates playing mediocre soccer is under a ceiling until he moves to a better team. American prodigies don't have a good place to go before they're quite ready for MLS and once they start to do well there they don't have a chance to move to a team that will take them to the next level-unless of course they move to a different league.
GET A CLUB TEAM
TheTruth
Post #13
Thursday May 21, 2015 2:34pm

Joined Dec 2013
Total Posts: 950
Dude, you do know that there are people in these forums who are from Europe, grew up in Europe, or grew up following European soccer more closely than US sports?

True, young players in the US have 'nowhere' to play, but it's really a $$ issue. You can make a decent living in the Championship, or AAA baseball. Guys in the USL are below the poverty line so they have to work at Home Depot. Not to mention the guys at the end of the bench in MLS. We're still a LONG way away from significant money flowing down through the system. 18 year old elite athletes all over the world face these tough economic decisions. The smarter ones often decide, screw it, I need to drop out and go to college or grad school.

dolcem
Post #14
Thursday May 21, 2015 5:49pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,805
Original post from TheTruth

Dude, you do know that there are people in these forums who are from Europe, grew up in Europe, or grew up following European soccer more closely than US sports?

True, young players in the US have 'nowhere' to play, but it's really a $$ issue. You can make a decent living in the Championship, or AAA baseball. Guys in the USL are below the poverty line so they have to work at Home Depot. Not to mention the guys at the end of the bench in MLS. We're still a LONG way away from significant money flowing down through the system. 18 year old elite athletes all over the world face these tough economic decisions. The smarter ones often decide, screw it, I need to drop out and go to college or grad school.


I'm sure there are, but the vast majority of us grew up in the US watching American sports, as is certainly the case with all of the posters above. As far as the second paragraph goes, agreed.
GET A CLUB TEAM
skangles
DC
Post #15
Saturday May 23, 2015 3:10am

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 5,446
Paul Caligiuri doesn't know the name of the network that he's on. Oh brother.

Also why does his broadcast partner Sandoval need to sing every word?

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