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2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #31
Thursday April 9, 2015 5:27am

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 9,536
What do you mean they can't reinvest into the team? Reinvesting that money doesn't always mean using it to buy players. In fact Dallas used Brek Shea's transfer money to help reinvest into the squad.

There are many areas a transfer fee can be reinvested. I believe the Yedlin transfer fee is being reinvested into Seattle's academy.

I fully understood what you meant. As I stated that Seattle did a good job integrating Yedlin into their senior team.

I get it you want all promising players sold abroad. That's your opinion. But I don't agree with it.

If Argentina's and Brazil's economies weren't so poor, then exporting players wouldn't be a priority for most of those teams.

Diego Maradonna said it the best: Boca just couldn't afford to turn down the Barcelona transfer fee for me.

The US economy is the richest economy in the world. Exporting soccer players isn't really a priority for MLS teams.

Some players will go to Europe and some will stay in MLS. I hope to see MLS keep more top American players.

dolcem
Post #32
Thursday April 9, 2015 6:13am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,786
Original post from blaise213

MLS week 5 1/2

Watching the Crew vs Whitecaps game right now...

Well this game isn't shit... Every single player showing their technical 1 v 1 ability. More MLS games need to be like this! Pretty entertaining....


This is because Gregg Berhalter is the only MLS coach I've ever seen that is different from the rest (in terms of everything I wrote in the last few posts). He has the Crew playing quality soccer. Probably something he learned when he was in Europe.

Original post from 2tone

What do you mean they can't reinvest into the team? Reinvesting that money doesn't always mean using it to buy players. In fact Dallas used Brek Shea's transfer money to help reinvest into the squad.

There are many areas a transfer fee can be reinvested. I believe the Yedlin transfer fee is being reinvested into Seattle's academy.

I fully understood what you meant. As I stated that Seattle did a good job integrating Yedlin into their senior team.

I get it you want all promising players sold abroad. That's your opinion. But I don't agree with it.

If Argentina's and Brazil's economies weren't so poor, then exporting players wouldn't be a priority for most of those teams.

Diego Maradonna said it the best: Boca just couldn't afford to turn down the Barcelona transfer fee for me.

The US economy is the richest economy in the world. Exporting soccer players isn't really a priority for MLS teams.

Some players will go to Europe and some will stay in MLS. I hope to see MLS keep more top American players.


That money cannot be reinvested into the squad because of the salary cap. The cap is still the same. MLS teams need to be given extra cap room for selling these players...that way the coaches have the incentive to develop talent.

Argentina, Brazil, and Holland (which is not poor, by the way) have amazing national teams because their domestic clubs put a huge emphasis on player development. They send their players to the best teams in the world, places where they only further develop to become world beaters (you learn a thing or two more playing at Barcelona than you do for the LA Galaxy). Their teams build themselves around young players and do everything they can to develop them and sell them abroad at a young age. And guess what? The leagues are very good as well because all of the teams do this. They play very good quality soccer (even if the defending is suspect at times) and all of the players playing in the system benefit from it. They produce amazing coaches and players at all levels because style takes precedence over results.

In the MLS, there isn't really much incentive to focus on developing individual young talent because of the lack of incentives for coaches to do so (the owners getting to pocket money isn't enough). They only have their teams play for the result, and since it is like this at all levels, none of them know how to coach a different way. This is very different from Argentina, where a coach can be fired despite good results if he doesn't play the "right way" and develop young talent. And guess what? No one complains about this. They all understand that exporting talent is a good thing for the national team and that it only frees up places for more youngsters to have a try.
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hamsamwich
Post #33
Thursday April 9, 2015 11:56am

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 2,594
@blaise- Told you Vancouver is a good watch.

@dolcem- don't shortchange Robinson as a coach either. Your overall point is well taken. I only have to think of the job our academy director here in chicago, Larry Sunderland, has done and does on a day to day basis. Up until this point, there hasn't been a place on the senior team for those players. The USL pro link up with St Louis will help, and there are now many clubs with their own II team like LA galaxy etc. Personally it was odd last year watching victor Pineda and benji joya ride the pine so our last place Fire could put Matt Watson an other journeymen bums on the field instead of two up and coming talents. Very odd and not forward thinking at all.

skangles
DC
Post #34
Thursday April 9, 2015 12:33pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 5,351
I thought Victor Pineda was on loan to Indy Eleven last season? Also didn't Indy just buy him outright from the Fire?

hamsamwich
Post #35
Thursday April 9, 2015 12:53pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 2,594
Yes they did sign Victor, all of us here wish him luck, he's a good kid with talent. I hope victor becomes the next Ibarra... Last year he went on loan in like July or August after sitting on the bench all year, small token appearances here and there. Waste of a season. Same with Joya, who I assume went back to Santos Laguna. Scored on his first pro touch for the Fire and never really played again. Whether that's frank yallop being stubborn I don't know but other coaches do the same. Very disappointing.

This season is different, we look to contend. But in a similar situation is young Collin Fernandez. He was signed to a pro contract and practices, but that's it. I'd like to see him sent to St. Louis. If not he won't play and his development will stall.

dolcem
Post #36
Thursday April 9, 2015 8:40pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,786
Ham-I didn't comment on the Whitecaps because I don't watch enough of them to have an educated opinion, but Robinson seems to be the ideal coach. He developed and played abroad at the highest levels, meaning he was exposed to the best methods of coaching, development, training, etc. but played here and is familiar with our system as well. These are exactly the types of guys we want coaching (and of course we want American players who made it abroad to come back and coach here).

And what you mentioned about Joya and Pineda is exactly what I'm talking about. It makes me want to pull my hair out. There's no real incentive for the Fire to fast-track their development since the funds made from selling them can't be reinvested in the squad. Their only motivation is to win next week's game. But if this were any club in the world, they would do everything possible to develop those two and sell them at a young age. Look at the examples of Luis Gil and Matias Pisano discussed in my post above...it's entirely obvious that the MLS is not a good place for young talent to develop.

2tone's argument is predicated upon the assumption that these guys are just fine staying in the MLS. This is because he is used to American sports, where a player's development isn't really effected as much by his teammates and the system around him. In, say, gridiron, you can play on shitty teams from high school to pro but still turn out to be a great player, for example, since what you do is isolated and unaffected by what your teammates are doing. In soccer, a player is much more a part of the collective, and a player to a great extent is only as good as his teammates around him. At some point, a player has to play in Europe to become great. If you stay in the US your entire career, you cannot become a world class soccer player. It can happen in FIFA, but in real life it is physically impossible. Such a player is bound by the system in which he plays, one that is slow, based on route one tactics with low-level coaches, teammates, and opposition that mostly came from this rudimentary soccer culture. Yes Landon Donovan is the closest thing we'll ever have as an exception to that rule, but he developed in Europe and he never became the world class talent he was expected to be.
GET A CLUB TEAM
skangles
DC
Post #37
Friday April 10, 2015 3:35am

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 5,351
Dolcem, what do you think about player development in Japan? Japanese players have established a solid pipeline into Europe via Germany and while most of these guys make the move in their early 20s they are still developing in the Japanese system during their crucial teen years.

coverby
Post #38
Friday April 10, 2015 7:10am

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 499
Didn't know where else to post this in here but it looks like Eddie Johnson's career may be over due to his heart condition. I truly wish him good health, and luckily doctors caught this early.

Fraser31
Charleston, South Carolina
Post #39
Friday April 10, 2015 8:23am

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 1,290
I would LOVE for an Asian team to really become a powerhouse. Preferably Japan before Korea. Tell you what though, I think in the next decade there will be a surge in players from Asia showing up in leagues all over the world. The passion for the sport is certainly here. Have any of you guys seen that guy in the J-League who's 47/8 and still banging in goals? Love stories like that.

dolcem
Post #40
Friday April 10, 2015 9:01pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,786
Original post from skangles

Dolcem, what do you think about player development in Japan? Japanese players have established a solid pipeline into Europe via Germany and while most of these guys make the move in their early 20s they are still developing in the Japanese system during their crucial teen years.


The sooner players are exposed to the best coaching (this includes the 'big 7' in Europe and Argentina and Brazil), the better. The goal as a young player is to constantly work your way up to the next level, especially if that means heading to a better team. Homers want to see our young players stay at home but the sooner they go abroad, the better. Any coach will tell you this and the numbers do, too. Sure, there's the example of Kagawa, but he is the exception to the rule (and he has been found out as not the player people thought he was). If you look at the top players, almost all of them started playing in one of those nine leagues by their teens.

Look at Uruguay, for example. Very solid national team but its domestic league isn't so good anymore (understandable given its tiny population). The top Uruguayan players generally leave Uruguay at a young age. Every year they stay there, their chances of making a move to Europe and becoming a top player decrease. This is general knowledge among the population there and people don't complain about young talent leaving; they know it's for the best.

The interesting thing about the Japanese youth system is that they have implemented an ambitious, ingenious plan. They understand that Japanese soccer is new and underdeveloped compared to the 'big nine' and that they most learn from the best if they want to improve. So they picked a country and decided to import its coaches and try and learn from them and imitate their style at all levels. It's a brilliant plan, and the same one that we should undertake (that's a post for a different day, one I've been planning to write for a while). But the problem is the picked the wong country: Brazil. The Japanese will never be able to play like Brazilians...they don't have the pick-up culture that Brazilians do and they're too collectivist. And Brazilian coaches aren't really the best, either.
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The final stretch of the English league season is upon us, with several Americans on the verge of relegation with their teams.
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