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Live490
Texas
Post #121
Thursday March 26, 2015 5:44pm

Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts: 1,112
I think he sucks. I have never liked him especially after his comments and lack of commitment. I with you bro on chandler. His first game with the Yanks was pretty good though. He owned that right side and crossed decently.

rainORshine
Post #122
Thursday March 26, 2015 5:50pm

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 2,097
i dont really understand how anyone thinks bedoya is a CM

starting a game with bedoya at CM is a complete and utter WASTE OF TIME - and makes it really difficult to evaluate ANYONE when you have a completely dysfunctional midfield because you have only one true CM on the field.

some experiments are reasonable - moving a LM to LB, trying a central attacker on wing... but you need CMs playing CM

a good coach will do three things consistently:
1) identify players who can help your team succeed
2) put those players in BEST POSITIONS to succeed
3) create some sort of recognizable team IDENTITY - based on philosophy, tactics, mentality, etc.

i dont see how anyone watches these games and thinks that JK is consistently achieving #2 or #3

like him or not bruce arena did those things for USMNT and does it consistently for LAG

like him or not BB did those things for USMNT

the point is not that player X or player Y is going to make all the difference, the point is JK just does not check off basic boxes of good coaching

we deserve better

kjperuch
Post #123
Thursday March 26, 2015 6:11pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 218
I watch Chandler in the Bundesliga and he does fine but when he is with the Nats he is inconsistent. But sometimes its not just the player but the people around him that can cause a player to be good or bad. if there is inconsistancy with the team then it rubs off on the players and that goes back to Klinsman.

navi8132
Post #124
Thursday March 26, 2015 6:18pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 2,572
I don't think Chandler was taking the game seriously, I think that is mostly the reason for his performance.

rainORshine
Post #125
Thursday March 26, 2015 6:26pm

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 2,097
Original post from kjperuch

I watch Chandler in the Bundesliga and he does fine but when he is with the Nats he is inconsistent. But sometimes its not just the player but the people around him that can cause a player to be good or bad. if there is inconsistancy with the team then it rubs off on the players and that goes back to Klinsman.


yes

if players are clearly good players and have pretty consistent good club form - say guys like chandler and fabian - but seem to struggle with NT this reflects back to the coach

why is the coach not getting the most out of clearly very strong players?

getting the most out of the talent at your disposal is perhaps THE primary role of a coach

dolcem
Post #126
Thursday March 26, 2015 6:50pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,692
Original post from 2tone

It doesn't help that in the past decade or so MLS and USSF haven't really developed many good players.

We are now what 7 years into the MLS academy system. And we have very little to show for it.

Yedlin
Agudelo
Zardes

Only these three MLS academy alum players have become full Internationals. That's not acceptable.


Ding ding ding. The USNT player pool is deeper than ever before but in terms of our top 10 or so, this is the worst we have been since the 90's. The newest generation has unable to fill the shoes of Reyna, McBride, Donovan, Dempsey, etc. Name one American (homegrown) soccer player under the age of 30 who inspires confidence at the international level aside from Bradley (and even then...). It's depressing.

You can fault the MLS academy system but I don't think they are the problem. They have produced some very talented young players whose development invariably stalls once they get to the senior level. This is because MLS teams don't really have the financial incentive (or the know-how) to develop these players...if one of these academy products blossoms, he will simply ask for a pay raise, and if there isn't enough cap room, he will leave and the club will have gained nothing from their investment. Thus, MLS coaches only play for the result and do not really take player development into account. Not to mention that because they came of age in the stone age of American soccer, they don't even really know how to do anything differently.

Take Luis Gil for example. He was a 16 year-old prodigy CM who decided to sign with the MLS rather than go to Arsenal (arguably the best club in the world for player development...who advises these kids?), and the MLS sent him to RSL thanks to some backroom dealings. If this were a South American team, at some point soon after they would try to do everything to accommodate this kid, develop him into a bona fide talent, and sell him to an elite European club for a huge transfer fee. This means they would actually use a formation that utilizes his position...a 4-3-3 or 4-5-1, for example. But Jason Kreis had no real incentive to prioritize Gil's development, so it was Gil that had to adapt to RSL's style. He's spent the last four years mostly playing ON THE WING. And, surprise, he hasn't really made any strides, a massive setback considering 16-20 are the most important years in a player's development. This is the first season that RSL appears to be playing with a CM so we'll see how it goes.

We can't fault the academies for producing prodigies that MLS teams don't care to (and don't know how to) develop.
GET A CLUB TEAM
chillguy1992
Post #127
Thursday March 26, 2015 7:19pm

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 1,095
This was chandlers first game at right back for the united states since the honduras game in february 2013. Then he was exiled from the us for about 15 months and played left back ever since for the team which didnt make sense since he has a very strong right foot evidenced by that nice diagonal ball to altidore for the first goal. Garza was awful Chandler played better the he did. I understand that chandlers uneasiness about declaring for the us rankles people but its hard to judge a player on his merits who is played in a position that forces him to use his weak foot rather then his strong foot. I think watch him in the switzerland game and he will have a better game. Which alludes me to skangles excellent commentary about luis gil the fact that it is only now he is playing at cm is crazy considering how bright of a prospect he was. Sometimes player development is just as simple as playing a player in his correct position and even that it seems we screw up.

USAGunner
West Palm Beach
Post #128
Thursday March 26, 2015 7:33pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 1,304
JK does not care about W/L in Friendlies (except warm up friendlies for big tournaments...such as the 3 matches before the World Cup).

Here is his record in non-Friendly matches (including the warm-up friendlies):
22-3-5 (an average of 2.3 points a match (3 for win, 1 for draw))

In Friendlies he is:
11-8-11 (an average of 1.4 points a match)

While at Germany:
Non-Friendlies he was 9-1-2 (2.3 points a match)
Friendlies he was 11-6-4 (1.9 points a match).

He tinkers in Friendlies, and sees what people have in different positions. But when it comes to competitive matches, he knows what he has and what kind of positions he can put people in and knows peoples best positions (not just what people think is), because they have been there before. He'll tinker against Switzerland, he'll tinker against Mexico in April (probably less than normal), He'll tinker in the June camp against Netherlands and Germany (although he'll be coming around to a firm roster at this point in preparation for July's Gold Cup).

But once July hits and they start that camp (and I'm sure we'll have 2 friendlies announced for those matches too) it'll be all business. He'll call in 30, and keep the best 23. It'll be the lineup that he likes best. In the Warm-up Friendlies he'll have probably 7-8 of the 11 firm and he'll see which guys perform in the warm-ups. The team will look much better than it has (and will look progressively better in each warm-up game). He'll settle on those final 2-3 positions and we'll be off to the races.

We'll put in a good performance, win our group and advance to the final.

Stop worrying so much about the team results of the Friendlies. He treats them a lot more like NFL treats preseason games than most. Those games are about getting better and seeing what guys can do.

Newsflash.
Bradley, Altidore, Dempsey, and probably now Brooks are the core of this team. They know what each other can do and have been playing with each other for 5-6 years now. Bradley can play back and he can play forward, he has the tactical awareness to do so, Dempsey can play up top as a secondary striker, he can play as more of cam or he can play outwide. Altidore can play alone up top or he can play with another striker. Now the job this camp, next month and in June and the start of the Gold Cup camp is to see who works best with those guys and in what formation.

Stuff like Morales playing well with Bradley. Stuff like that matters. AJ and Altidore forming a good combo up top. That matters. These are things JK is looking at not the final result or the overall play. But how these guys pair up together in different formations.
www.westpalmbeachchurchofchrist.com
dolcem
Post #129
Thursday March 26, 2015 7:37pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,692
Original post from rainORshine

i dont really understand how anyone thinks bedoya is a CM

starting a game with bedoya at CM is a complete and utter WASTE OF TIME - and makes it really difficult to evaluate ANYONE when you have a completely dysfunctional midfield because you have only one true CM on the field.

some experiments are reasonable - moving a LM to LB, trying a central attacker on wing... but you need CMs playing CM

a good coach will do three things consistently:
1) identify players who can help your team succeed
2) put those players in BEST POSITIONS to succeed
3) create some sort of recognizable team IDENTITY - based on philosophy, tactics, mentality, etc.

i dont see how anyone watches these games and thinks that JK is consistently achieving #2 or #3

like him or not bruce arena did those things for USMNT and does it consistently for LAG

like him or not BB did those things for USMNT

the point is not that player X or player Y is going to make all the difference, the point is JK just does not check off basic boxes of good coaching

we deserve better


I think we should all take the time to read this post because it is a perfect example of how noobs understand the game of soccer.

Rain started following the sport a couple of years ago by playing FIFA and this is how he conceptualizes the game. Plug player X into position Y and his overall rating will be Z (determined in part by whether Y is his natural position). The goal is to pick a line-up that gets the highest possible sum of the overall ratings of the starting 11. And of course because he thinks that soccer is like American sports, he thinks that basic statistics are relevant and that a player's overall rating can be more or less guessed by reading box scores. The idea is to get a starting XI on the field who have scored as many goals and assists as possible...Kljestan scores more goals and assists than Michael Bradley, for example, so he most be better at "creating offense." To be fair, this season Rain has started to look at much more advanced statistics, but this is his general framework.

Thus for Rain, the first two (of three total) things that come to mind when discussing what is a good coach are picking lineups. But this is not what a knowledgeable fan from another country would respond if asked what criteria a coach should be evaluated by. Anyone else would simply say, "results and style." (I.e. on-the-field product, technical development, something like that.) Of course player selection and lineups are a part of this, but only insofar as the produce success on the other two fronts.

In no other country will people complain about wacky lineups and selections if the team plays well and wins, and if a manager fails to deliver good football and good results, he will be criticized for that and not for picking the wrong lineup. Formations and lineups are NOT tactics. Two different coaches can pick the same lineup and play completely differently, and even if a coach picks the perfect line-up, the team may play poorly. Moreover, the coach will never pick exactly what a fan wants (and even if he does, it will be different than the rest of the fans' imaginary lineups), and anyone knowledgeable of the sport is OK with this. But noobs like Rain are used to picking the line-ups on FIFA and think this is mainly what coaching comes down to...when they see a different line-up on the screen, they think the coach doesn't know what he is doing and that he needed to pick the players they picked (if only I were the coach, they cry). What separates Klinsmann from Guardiola is that the latter picks better line-ups.

This conceptual understanding led Rain to come to three conclusions that he spammed the forum with for years: Kljestan is the second coming of Claudio Reyna, Jermaine Jones is washed up, and Klinsmann is a horrible coach (Rain even said he would eat crow and praise Klinsmann if we got out of the group stage). Well, Kljestan continues to be a nice player, nothing more, Jones was our best player at the World Cup, and we had an historic World Cup performance (the results under JK were the best in history and we played much better soccer than we did under his predecessors). Rain hid under a rock for the next few months but now that Klinsmann is experimenting in FRIENDLIES (against fairly tough opposition) as we go through a transition phase, he has the gall to come back out and start the spamming again. Apparently, we need already need to have an "identity" less than a year after the previous World Cup, before any competitive matches begin. Let the trolling begin.
GET A CLUB TEAM
USAGunner
West Palm Beach
Post #130
Thursday March 26, 2015 7:43pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 1,304
We'll have an identity when it matters.
www.westpalmbeachchurchofchrist.com
rainORshine
Post #131
Thursday March 26, 2015 7:56pm

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 2,097
Original post from USAGunner

We'll have an identity when it matters.


3.5 years and still waiting

some folks willing to wait till eternity i suppose

admsghs27
Post #132
Thursday March 26, 2015 8:19pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 5,980
I guess we will continue to wait for an Identity leading up until 2018 at the very least. But some are happy with that and willing to wait.

navi8132
Post #133
Thursday March 26, 2015 8:19pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 2,572
Come on. Real question is did you love or hate those jerseys?

admsghs27
Post #134
Thursday March 26, 2015 8:24pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 5,980
Original post from navi8132

Come on. Real question is did you love or hate those jerseys?

I actually liked them. They weren't that bad. Wished it had some red on it tho.

skangles
DC
Post #135
Thursday March 26, 2015 8:34pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 5,152
I don't like them but I may pick up a knock off. Speaking of which they're now up on Gogoalshop.com along with a pretty nice US replica jacket.

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