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2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #1
Thursday February 26, 2015 5:47pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 10,356
A question to ponder

Would you rather see MLS do away with a salary cap and be more like the EPL where emphasis is on winning, buying foreign players, and neglecting home grown players, so you can rave about how exceptional your domestic league is? Or do you want to see MLS continue the slow and steady growth approach while keeping a cap on foreign players and promoting young American players so that the USMNT is much stronger in global national team competitions?

It's no surprise that the degradation of the English team is how the current EPL is run and managed.

Chelsea had 1 Englishman in their starting 11 for their Champions league game against PSG, and that was John Terry who is currently retired from international soccer. Manchester City had one Englishman in their starting 11 for their champions league game against Barcelona and that was their GK Joe Hart. Arsenal had 2 English man in their starting 11 against Monaco, and they were Welbeck and Gibbs.

3 EPL teams in the Champions league and they have a grand total of 4 English men in their starting 11's. With only 3 of those players as active English national team players.

I don't want MLS to become like the EPL. I want MLS to strike a good balance of foreign players and HG players for their teams. Spain, Italy, and Germany do a good job of balancing their teams with domestic and foreign players in their teams. It's no surprise that their National teams have won the last 3 World Cups.

alex11pagan
Post #2
Thursday February 26, 2015 6:30pm

Joined Feb 2013
Total Posts: 27
slow steady growth!

I don't follow LIGA MX anymore but about half a dozen years ago, having sooo many foreign players and neglecting the youth was a big debate. Then there's the EPL, which you mentioned.

Fraser31
Charleston, South Carolina
Post #3
Thursday February 26, 2015 6:38pm

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 1,404
I don't really agree with this assessment of England's domestic league, and you certainly made a straw-man's argument for someone who would choose the "EPL option" over the MLS. As we rate our own team, the majority of us hardly consider the amount of players we have playing in the Champions league as a good measure of our talent pool (i.e. Sacha Kjlestan). Sure, it's nice, but it's not the be all end all.

Let's look at English teams in general, though, because looking at the starting line-ups of the champions league games are not a great representation of how many English players are actually playing day-in and day-out in the EPL. Liverpool has 5 English players just off the top of my head who actually play almost every week, and a couple of them are class act players. Arsenal's Wilshere is injured frequently and before his latest injury Walcott was a key contributor in the English team. Man City has always been slim on English players (save for Hart and Milner) since their rise to the ranks so I don't really want to consider that a good example but I'll concede for fairness elsewhere. Tottenham have solid players in Kane, Rose, and Townsend. The list goes on, but I think I've made my point:
I don't think many homegrown players are UNJUSTLY getting snubbed. The great players play, the mediocre ones have to fight for their spot just like everyone else, so I don't think there's any connection between the salary cap and England's failures. I would suck everyone's dick in this forum to have English players playing for the national team. They are a freaking anomaly; they don't play to their level and it's baffling.

I don't think, IN PRINCIPLE, removing the salary cap will do anything to hurt the league. IN PRINCIPLE means, to me, that right now would not be a good time to remove the cap. I think the league needs to grow more and more Americans need to be developed by the system, in order to prove the system works, to ultimately be able to move away from the salary cap.

I DO, however, firmly believe in the value of team chemistry, which can speak to the amount of players from a nation playing together at the club level. Spain, Italy, and Germany, like you mentioned, do that and do it really fucking well. We have a really great system right now because our NT starters are starting calibre in the MLS. Lift the salary cap and that number dwindles dramatically, MAYBE. Players still want to play in the big 4 leagues, so I can't imagine we would draw that much amazing talent to put that many Americans on the bench, but that's an intangible that's hard to predict.

Ultimate verdict: Right now, it's not broken. Don't fix it. 8 years from now? I think this conversation could take place again and I would have a different opinion, that opinion being based largely on the strength of the league and the calibre of MNT players.

Rey Regicide
Post #4
Thursday February 26, 2015 7:51pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 2,001
I would rather have the USMNT benefit from any action, whether it be MLS strengthening or protectionist measures for our players.

The best thing to happen to our youth in the past two years is alot of the best ones are being exposed to the European academies

Rubio Rubin, Emerson Hyndman, Julian Green have broken with the USMNT it's WAAAAAAY to early to say, but I have a strong feeling that those guys will be in our future teams for at least a decade to come.

The MLS is no slouch in this, but they just dont' have the infrastructure to cultivate these kids as quickly as the European teams do, for one reason or another. I don't foresee this happening forever.

The MLS is consistently getting better while in consideration of ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING. Investors get protected, fans with the exception of certain markets are always appreciated, about the only ones who are getting the shaft are American players who as a resort are heading away from the MLS at times to get opportunities. But even that's changing as a player of let's say Lee Nguyens stature, the one who is on the cusp of stardom, is being compensated properly.

I truly don't see a connection between a strong domestic league and consistent world beaters, France Netherlands and now Italy are great teams that will beat people in tournaments and for years now they are behind England, Spain, and Germany for best leagues.

If MLS doesn't ever take another step forwrard but we turn into semifinalists due to our talent making first team appearances in English German and Spanish leagues then I will be more than satisfied. =( I know that doesn't please the lot of you. But I care much more our nation, people who play footie, on the street to at the highest level against the highest level of other countries than the business men located here in the USA who employ them. And honestly, has to be said, at the moment, exploits them.

blaise213
Post #5
Thursday February 26, 2015 8:03pm

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 2,924
I want to see world class 40k stadiums in downtown locations

I want to see futsal courts popping up in the hood

I want to see 4 DP's for this season

The US is too big to have a problem like England. We will always have American players available

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #6
Thursday February 26, 2015 10:35pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 10,356
The FA of England has had an ever on going debate about the amount of foreign players versus domestic English/British players plying their trade in the EPL.

The statistics of English/British and Foreign players in the EPL make for a compelling case as to why England may be waning on the international front.

EPL: 59% Foreign players play in the EPL. That means roughly 41% of players in the EPL are British. And remember that Scotland players, Northern Ireland players, and Wales players all have British passports.

La Liga: 62% of players that play in La Liga are Spanish.

Serie A: 45% of Foreign players ply their trade in Italy. Meaning that 55% of Italians play in Serie A.

Bundesliga: 43% of foreign players make up the Bundesliga. 57% are German.

USAGunner
West Palm Beach
Post #7
Thursday February 26, 2015 10:49pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 1,322
I don't think getting rid of the salary cap will necessarily kill the academies and thus the growth of american youth. If anything for some it will enhance it and make it better.

How?

Even if we open the Salary cap all teams won't be able to compete money wise. You will have your NYCFC, LA Galaxy, etc that will spend whatever and get whatever players they can afford. But many won't be able to spend like that. So in order to compete (if they are smart) they will have to find other ways, such as enhancing their academies and thus finding more home-grown players.

So for some they might neglect the academies and just buy players to win, but many won't be able to compete that way, so they will have to compete by having more homegrown players and building their program that way.

Even in Europe you see the many of the best teams (particularly the ones with LASTING success) still have great academies and they focus on that. Yes they will spend on foreign players, but they still focus on their academies (Arsenal, ManU, Barcelona, Bayern Munich, etc).

Where the FA has gone wrong is letting so many of their teams sent their academy spots/scholarships spots to foreign youth.

If the MLS was to get rid of the salary cap, it would not do anything to the academies (overall...some would get stronger and some will get weaker). As long as the MLS makes sure the MLS academies focus on US homegrown players (not 100%, but make sure they have a quota). Then it will be fine.
www.westpalmbeachchurchofchrist.com
TheTruth
Post #8
Thursday February 26, 2015 11:18pm

Joined Dec 2013
Total Posts: 950
I've said many times before that I'm very happy with how MLS has progressed over the last 20 years.

The problem with the "would you rather. . ." game is that it's irrelevant. It doesn't matter what we want or what we think. The NFL is the most successful sports league in history. The league/owners have most of the power. It's very anti-competitive/anti-capitalist. But it can be. If you're a football player you have very few options for earning a living playing football outside the US. Centralized planning and control and collusion work best for sports leagues (unless, perhaps, if you're a player).

Anyway, of course I want the MLS to continue the strong, but slow progress they've made. Which basically means keeping the power primarily w/ the league and the owners. BUT, there are at least 50 other leagues in the world where a soccer player can earn a living so the bargaining dynamic is much more tilted toward the player than it is in other sports. Football - very few player options (CFL, Arena, does NFL Europe still exist?); Baseball - very few options (Japan); Basketball - a fair number of options in Europe; soccer - fuckload of player options therefore the league/owners need to unfortunately continue to cede power to the players.

So, yes, I'm all for making arbitrary rules in MLS like limiting foreign players, etc.

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #9
Thursday February 26, 2015 11:23pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 10,356
Good discussion. A lot of very good points made.

stone88
Post #10
Thursday February 26, 2015 11:28pm

Joined Aug 2012
Total Posts: 1,513
A bit of a false equivalency here. I think the MLS can take certain steps to become more like the EPL and other leagues around the world without having to give up some of the things that has made the league successful. Its not a choice between keeping all things like they are now or going full on EPL mode. No, the MLS can and should make adjustments that make sense while keeping rules that protect American players and make the league stronger and fairer than other leagues around the world. Keep the salary cap, but up it. This allows bigger, richer teams to spend more w/o the league necessarily turning into only a 1, 2, or 4 team league. I'd also like to see ALL players have more of a choice of where they want to play. And absolutely cut that stupid "finders keepers" rule they have.

snipes87
Cleveland, Ohio
Post #11
Thursday February 26, 2015 11:38pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 886
Original post from blaise213

I want to see futsal courts popping up in the hood



You gotta give up the dream on the futsal thing buddy. no one cares about that crap.

There's no correlation to the England national team performing poorly and foreign players in the EPL. The English players just aren't as good and perhaps vastly overrated.

Lifting the salary cap isn't going to make MLS like the EPL from a talent stand point. But the stats 2tone threw out could happen where only 40% of MLS would be American players. However, the 60% foreign players aren't going to be world class players. They are going to be a lot of solid players/fringe starting 11 players for Champion League teams such as Sebastian Giovinco who are coming for the payday. MLS will NEVER attract the world class Messi/Ronadlo/ Hazard/ Vidals etc (in their prime) because MLS doesn't put them in the Champions League.

MLS is doing good things at the moment. It will continue to get better as the American talent gets better.
If you don't love it, leave it, USA #1
admsghs27
Post #12
Friday February 27, 2015 12:55am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 6,060
I think MLS has made big strides just this past couple of years, but i do agree that we need to raise the Salary cap and keep rising it little by little every year. Our Academies have been doing a great job as of late you start seeing results at the youth level in friendlies and international tournaments from our Sub 20s all the way to the Sub 14s. We see USA beating and dominating teams like Brazil, England, Portugal, Holland, and other teams/Clubs. And those countries have top notch academies. even with the Sub 14s they recently had a successful trip in Spain Beating Real Madrid with ease. Not saying it will translate to the Senior level but is a good sign that our kids can play as good and compete with any country in the World. And even now you see kids getting interest from top clubs/academies in the world. I mean we have Pulisic going to Dortmund, Haji soon to Shalke, De la torre to Fulham, Barbir at Bromwich, perez at Fiorentina and many more at all youth levels. All if not most started here in USA which means we are doing a great job at Development as of late heck maybe even better than some top countries around the world. I will still say MLS will be one of the best leagues in the world in 10-20 years which isn't that long if you think about it. And of course i think our best talent and players will be Americans specially when the Salary cap is high enough they will be making pretty good money here and won't feel the need to go to Europe. MLS is like a Volcano right now is growing and growing and one day soon it will explode and be felt World wide and make it's presence felt.

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #13
Friday February 27, 2015 3:02am

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 10,356
Hard to say there isn't any correlation. Not enough data for either argument.

skangles
DC
Post #14
Friday February 27, 2015 4:17am

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 5,420
I only care about the MLS to see MNT players and potential players. That's not to say that I don't enjoy watching foreign players like Keane and Martins, I do but that's not my primary motivation for watching MLS.

MLS becoming one of the best in the world is not important for me. I only care about it being competitive enough to ensure our MNT players are sharp when they put on the stars and stripes.

stone88
Post #15
Friday February 27, 2015 5:53am

Joined Aug 2012
Total Posts: 1,513
Original post from skangles

I only care about the MLS to see MNT players and potential players. That's not to say that I don't enjoy watching foreign players like Keane and Martins, I do but that's not my primary motivation for watching MLS.

MLS becoming one of the best in the world is not important for me. I only care about it being competitive enough to ensure our MNT players are sharp when they put on the stars and stripes.


I think that attitude will change when the MLS begins to really challenge some of the big leagues and clubs around the world, especially if they're doing it with a heavy American roster.

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