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2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #46
Thursday March 5, 2015 11:22pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 10,356
Original post from snipes87

Yeah, MLS is not going to be a top 10 league by 2022. The American soccer player is not going to improve that much in 4 years.


Wait 2022 is 7 years away not 4.

And the American player has jumped leaps and bounds since the last CBA in 2010.

7 years is a long time considering the talent the US has coming up through the youth ranks from 15 to 21 years old.

skangles
DC
Post #47
Friday March 6, 2015 5:52am

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 5,420
Steven Bank has had the best articles about the CBA over the past few weeks. Here's his latest piece about the single entity system being the big winner of the new CBA.

http://americansoccernow.com/articles/who-won...

BG6
Post #48
Friday March 6, 2015 11:57am

Joined May 2014
Total Posts: 85
I understand and relate to the disappointment expressed by many with respect to the CBA and particularly player salaries (overall salary cap number) as well as the desire for rapid growth. I also understand the view whats a few million to billionaires. However, I think the CBA is a sign MLS is committing to the model of slow sustained growth in expenses to ensure the concominant increase in revenues makes it profitable. Some of the owners who have been involved since the beginning did so at considerable expense and losses in the early years and continue to see a lean (or break-even) payout. The CBA is a bit of top down economics (not an economist but this is my rudimentary interpretation and would very much welcome to be corrected). MLS wants the owners to see a steady increase in their bottom line so that it will become more attractive to long-term reinvestment and significant growth in the future. (I think it can be argued either way chicken or egg syndrome but it is hard for me to begrudge owners who put a lot in early the desire to see some returns now rather than waiting until later).

As someone who has been going to games since the beginning, I continue to be impressed with the growth of the league in a really, really short time. Perhaps I am cutting them too much slack for operating like a business rather than pushing to grow the game as rapidly as possible but for me the model is working and if it means getting there a few years later but without major additional hiccups (hopefully Chivas is the last of those for a while), then I support the slow(er) growth model. Yes there are significant flaws in how the league operates (arbitrary decisions even when they benefit my team like the Jones one leap to mind).

Finally the simple fact of the matter is, I am not sure the salary cap could grow sufficiently to attract the talent people want to see. Instead my sense, is that it would have resulted in overpaying players who don't have the talent to warrant it as well as a potential malaise (why should I go someone else and push to be better even if it might be a better league if I can get paid more here, sorry this is the cynic in me). I think we see hints of this with some of the USMNT designated player signings.

MSantoine
Post #49
Friday March 6, 2015 12:31pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,723
Looking at attendance numbers, MLS is up to 8th in the world in average attendance. Behind only the big 4, Mexico, France, and Netherlands. Adding two expansion teams and dropping Chivas my bet is we equal or even pass Mexico and France (will definitely pas Netherlands as we are 400 people below them.

More attendance means more revenues. And shows interest in the league. Eventually ESPN will start showing high lights, and that brings the casual fans to at least talk about it (things like did you see that goal/tackle/save). Its on its way.

With regards to the salary cap I think the only way it truly helps bring in talent is through DPs. For example, as the salary cap increases, current players on DP contracts can almost be taken off and fit into the salary cap. This allows the team to then bring in another DP, thus going over the cap. When most teams are spending 8-12 million, and the cap is at 5 million, it will be hard for the owners to not increase the cap more (say to 8 million). Then with DPs teams go up to 15 million. Rinse and repeat. Its probably a 4 year cycle to get these increases but I think we'll see it. Exciting times for MLS.

mmee
Culver City, CA
Post #50
Friday March 6, 2015 9:42pm

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 2,147
This is about the only site I can think of that will find it as hilarious as I did that Zach Scott is the example here:
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/mls-minimum-play...

Classic.

skangles
DC
Post #51
Friday March 6, 2015 10:31pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 5,420
You mean the CB who lost his starting spot to utility infielder Brad Evans?

MSantoine
Post #52
Saturday March 7, 2015 4:42pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,723
Original post from mmee

This is about the only site I can think of that will find it as hilarious as I did that Zach Scott is the example here:
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/mls-minimum-play...

Classic.


That writer is oblivious. I stopped reading when he started his article by sayings cot to aged for 50k and his teammate dempsey played for 6.7 million and he called it one of the greatest disparities in all of sports. Seriously!?, does he known nothing of sports. In NFL then tp players make 20+ millions whle min salary is lik 500k. In mlb the top players are closing in on 30 mil a year while rookies make under 100k. Same for NBA. In soccer I'm surer he young players on real and barca make no where near the 30+ million that messi and Ronaldo amongst some others make

Way to prove that Americans don't comprehend soccer at all.

skangles
DC
Post #53
Monday March 9, 2015 2:39am

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 5,420
I don't understand MLS at all. How is Mix not a DP? He's a well established part of the US national team and reportedly rejected a $1m DP contract from Columbus last season because it wasn't enough. You have the likes of Rochez in Orlando on a DP contract and Rochez may turn out to be a solid addition but there's not way I'd take him over Mix.

DP contracts counted for $369k against the cap last season. With the salary cap only making a modest jump in the new CBA I'd expect the figure to be in the same ballpark this time around. Does that mean Mix rejected a $1m contract from the Crew to take a less than $400k contract with NYCFC? Aren't US players subject to allocation and / or a blind envelope draw? I cannot imagine that no teams were willing to offer Mix a DP contract.

Seems dodgy to me, I wouldn't be surprised if City Football Group has pulled another rabbit out of their hat in order to sign Mix whilst keeping another DP slot free. I'm looking forward to next months salary release so we can get to the bottom of this.

MSantoine
Post #54
Monday March 9, 2015 3:24am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,723
I'm pretty sure one big mis understanding with the dp contracts is players can sign for above the dp number. The team just has to have the whole salary count towards the cap. Since nycfc is an expansion team with lots of minimum salary players they may have been able to squeeze him in at a one million salary and not gone over the cap. Since they knew the cap was going up they figure they can afford it now and it won't be an issue going forward, or he can slide into a dp slot at thats time.

skangles
DC
Post #55
Monday March 9, 2015 3:47am

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 5,420
If NYCFC signs three DPs then $1.2m of their $3.7m cap would go towards the DP hit. They may be ok this year with Lampard and the third DP only playing half a season but they would be screwed from next season onwards.

If they have $1.2m allocated towards DPs and $1m for Mix (hypothetically) that would leave $1.5m for the rest of the roster.

Looking at last season's salaries for some of their bigger names they have George John ($300k), Grabavoy ($160k), Wingert ($164k), Hernandez ($210k), Jacobson ($200k).

That would leave about $500k for 20 players or ~$25k per player which doesn't work.

They may look to move George John if they sign a third DP but still, I don't see how they could have signed Mix on DP level money without using a DP slot.

I think there's much more to this than what meets this eye.

skangles
DC
Post #56
Monday March 9, 2015 3:58am

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 5,420
I forgot that only the top 20 paid players count against the cap so let me re-jig the numbers.

$1.2m for three DPs
$1m for Mix (hypothetical)
$1m for the five players mentioned above
$500k for the next 11 players ~ $45k average

Take Mix down to $700k and it would make for an average of $72k for the remaining 11 players.

Maybe Mix is on more of the $600-700k range. Still seems like he could have earned more in a DP slot with another team.

I'm not clear on how this all went down and wish the growing soccer media would have done some digging.

MSantoine
Post #57
Monday March 9, 2015 12:22pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,723
Original post from skangles

I forgot that only the top 20 paid players count against the cap so let me re-jig the numbers.

$1.2m for three DPs
$1m for Mix (hypothetical)
$1m for the five players mentioned above
$500k for the next 11 players ~ $45k average

Take Mix down to $700k and it would make for an average of $72k for the remaining 11 players.

Maybe Mix is on more of the $600-700k range. Still seems like he could have earned more in a DP slot with another team.

I'm not clear on how this all went down and wish the growing soccer media would have done some digging.


Also not sure about MLS but most leagues have portions of the minimum salary not count against the cap. (NFL and NBA do this. I think MLB does too). The reason being is if your against the cap and get hit by injuries you can pick up minimum salary guys without going over the cap. Again not sure if MLS does but the other major US sports do this. They could have close to 1 million for the rest of the players.

skangles
DC
Post #58
Monday March 9, 2015 12:57pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 5,420
Yeah, only the 20 highest salaries count against the cap. NYCFC has 27 players at the moment so 7 won't count against the cap.

blaise213
Post #59
Monday March 9, 2015 6:18pm

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 2,924
Good for Taylor Twellman for calling out Garber on how MLS is supposed to become a top league with the salary cap only going up to $4.1?

Of course Garber would give the obvious statement about the academies are growing, blah blah blah

mmee
Culver City, CA
Post #60
Monday March 9, 2015 8:54pm

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 2,147
I seriously like Twellman for calling everything how he sees it and being reasonably intelligent about doing that.

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