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chris_thebassplayer
San Jose
Post #211
Thursday July 27, 2017 6:40am

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 1,310
I just want to see him play like it means something. His talent level is in the top 3 on the team. He should be an impact player for us, but the last few times we've seen him he seems content to just blend in...to the point where he's getting the same stuff done as less talented players. Hopefully Bruce can motivate him to play at a level that matches his talent.

admsghs27
Post #212
Thursday July 27, 2017 8:06am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 6,060
Fuck Him Villafana 100xs better at LB!!!!! At Midfield ? heck we got Pulisic to take his job hahahaha even nagbe the other side!!!!

Dave
Post #213
Thursday July 27, 2017 10:20am

Joined Jul 2014
Total Posts: 799
@admsghs27 - You do realize that in order to truly succeed in international tournaments a team has to have 16-18 quality players right? Thinking we don't need a player of Fabian's quality is insane. Yes, Pulisic has been great....and Nagbe is making good strides. But that still leaves a starting wide midfield slot open. Or are you going to claim that Bedoya, Arriola, & Zardes are better players than Fabian?

We should all be hoping that players like Fabian can re-discover their form and contribute to the team. We need the Brooks of the Copa America, the Fabian of the 14 WC, etc... Because right now we do not have the players to replace them. This was clearly on display during this Gold Cup.

Rey Regicide
Post #214
Thursday July 27, 2017 1:37pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 1,973
Original post from chris_thebassplayer

Here we go...

JK's personal vendetta with LD coated every jackass decision he made. At the end of the WC prep camp LD was focused and ready to roll...it was a joke he didn't even get the opportunity to be a sub. Except for the handful of LD haters, it is universally understood that was a vindictive tragic blunder.

If Arena was the coach in 2014 he would have used LD in the same super sub role he's now using for Deuce.


woa, I think Donovan

before Pulisic jumped up and took the 10

and definitely before Dempsey turned himself into a forward

was the best player ever for the US. And while it was a simple tap in, contrast that to Jermaine Jones spacetime bender that made Einstein blush, I don't think there was a more important goal, and THAT was followed up by an equally important goal. The one that got rid of 2006 in our psyche. The one that said, "no.", we're not going to lie down. We're going to fight.

See I love Donovan. But Donovan did those things that would make anyone question whether he was suitable for intense competition.

He literally said this

http://soccer.nbcsports.com/2014/10/10/landon...

Just strip it all away.

Take away the fat Donovan in the friendly we played against Mexico. Take away the MLS Donovan who wasn't really lighting it up for Galaxy after coming back from like a half year hiatus.

Take all those things away. Would you want someone battling depression on your world cup roster? Like what if he has another 2006? I mean I don't think JK is a saint, but I definitely don't think he's a monster. And at the end of the day, if he is someone who truthfully doesn't give a rats ass about anyone but himself, then you don't take that guy.

Literally the reason you would take 2014 Donovan, is because you thought you were getting 2010, 2002, hell even 2006 Donovan. Did we have reason to believe that?

Now... the Julian Green selection... heh

dolcem
Post #215
Thursday July 27, 2017 3:33pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,759
Original post from chris_thebassplayer

Here we go...

JK's personal vendetta with LD coated every jackass decision he made. At the end of the WC prep camp LD was focused and ready to roll...it was a joke he didn't even get the opportunity to be a sub. Except for the handful of LD haters, it is universally understood that was a vindictive tragic blunder.

If Arena was the coach in 2014 he would have used LD in the same super sub role he's now using for Deuce.


Right. Klinsmann wanted to hurt his own chances of success because of a grudge against one of his own players. When we were in the group of death. Do you really think someone who has played and coached at the highest levels is actually going to be like that? Can you name one other example of this happening?

It's really, really simple. Klinsmann's whole philosophy was centered around fitness and motivation. Donovan quit soccer (at the age of 30...because he played too many MLS games), came back, and then showed up to a friendly with a beer gut, played like crap in MLS, and then publicly stated that he was too old to train at 100%.

Brad Davis and Chris Wondolowski, on the other hand, were dying to be there. Rather than having the drama of the best player in our history sitting on the bench (no one can seriously argue that Donovan was fit enough to play more than 30 minutes), Klinsmann went with them. It was a ridiculously ballsy call, because if we didn't make it out of the group stage (and we weren't supposed to), he would have been fired and hated in the US for the rest of history. The decision clearly payed off, because we fought like hell and had a great World Cup.

You're right that Coach Bruce wouldn't have cut Donovan. He wouldn't have had either the cajones or the stature to do so. Coach Bruce never did anything as a player and it's not like he's a world class coach. He never made it to Bayern Munich or Everton, nor have any of his peers. Klinsmann, on the other hand, was a key part of title-winning teams and played under some of the world's best coaches, and has even coached at that level as well. So if he thinks that that version of Donovan would not have been a good addition to the locker room, his opinion holds some weight, moreso than anyone here's, or Coach Bruce's, for that matter. A lot of Anewmerican soccer fans don't understand yet that pedigree matters, but it's in situations like these when it does.

I'm not saying this because I'm a "Donovan hater." The people who go beyond disagreeing with Klinsmann's decision (by saying it was a gripe or a conspiracy or something like that) are homers who can't bear to view one of our players in a negative light and couldn't handle a "foreigner" cutting him. Even when he was coaching, Klinsmann was one of "them" while Donovan was one of "ours." And I guess these people aren't to the point yet where they feel comfortable criticizing one of "ours."
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Rey Regicide
Post #216
Thursday July 27, 2017 3:42pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 1,973
Dolcem, what i forgot ot piece together was, if hte situation is comparable, and I agree iwht you, Arena takes Donovan, but probably hides him and puts him in as a sub. To like shield him from repsonsibilty etc..

then he probably is going to take FJ, and not carry a vendetta for FJ being seemingly aloof.

Unless of course, Bruce REALLY hates "German" Americans. (which i don't think is the case, I think he's a pamper the players who matter, guy)

cudevil
Post #217
Thursday July 27, 2017 6:44pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 548
Anyone that didn't realize that LD wasn't going to Brazil the second he said he couldn't train 100% every day was fooling themselves.

Chance2bad
Cincinnati, OH
Post #218
Friday July 28, 2017 5:43am

Joined Jun 2017
Total Posts: 38
Julien Green had no business being in the 2014 WC and the only reason JK took him was to lock him up for the future, well how's that working out?!?! Not to mention Donovan at age 50 and 300 pounds is better than that POS Wondo, remember the wide open net against Belgium, you know who makes that...lazy and depressed Landon Donovan, I believed in JK at the time and supported his decision to leave Landon off the squad but guess what...it was the complete wrong decision....Jozy gets hurt in the first game and instead of having the best US play ever to date to turn to he ends up looking like a fool....you get paid make the tough decisions and when they don't work you deserve to face the consequences...it was time for JK to go

And speaking of the topic Fabian I hope he gets back to form and locks up one of the wings, the US is a much better team when Fabian is at top form, but when he's not he can also be a huge drag, CONCACAF Cup is a prime example, he had a terrible game and Mexico dominated us

Rey Regicide
Post #219
Friday July 28, 2017 12:47pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 1,973
Donovan couldn't get us to beat Ecuador in a friendly, and we think he could have beat Belgium and won the world cup for us.

Rey Regicide
Post #220
Friday July 28, 2017 12:51pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 1,973
I'm not saying you're wrong. Donovan's skill set was/is as you say largely superior to Wondo, the Green I'll never understand outside of "cap this guy now with this world cup carrot".

But Wondo has been banging in goals.

Here's the thing, JK had a vendetta against Landon and against this preferential treatment. It's basically the main difference between Arena and him. Well one of them. Arena panders, JK is in fact a WC champion and wants to be treated in the capacity of a manager and technical director with the respect and adulation. Regardless of what he may say. I agree that people in this country don't know how to play outside of simple north to south tactics at all costs, but he didn't merit absolute deference. Especially since as a player he was a striker, the guys with the simplest instruction set. Not a defender or a midfielder.

JK hated Donovan. Donovan was still unfit to play in the WC.

Rey Regicide
Post #221
Friday July 28, 2017 1:06pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 1,973
I take it back, being unfit might have gone too far. I'm sure he could have done a job, coming off the bench.

But he wasn't the clear cut, leader, no. 10, best player on our team.

And with what he said to the media, the year and a half debacle of leaving your team and coincidentally wanting to come back at the tailend of qualifying, getting stripped by Marquez in Midfield in the friendlies leading up to the WC, looking out of shape... I can understand Jk's position. I guess that's a better position to take.

dfw_fan
DfW
Post #222
Friday July 28, 2017 8:27pm

Joined Apr 2013
Total Posts: 934
Original post from Chance2bad

Julien Green had no business being in the 2014 WC and the only reason JK took him was to lock him up for the future, well how's that working out?!?! Not to mention Donovan at age 50 and 300 pounds is better than that POS Wondo, remember the wide open net against Belgium, you know who makes that...lazy and depressed Landon Donovan, I believed in JK at the time and supported his decision to leave Landon off the squad but guess what...it was the complete wrong decision....Jozy gets hurt in the first game and instead of having the best US play ever to date to turn to he ends up looking like a fool....you get paid make the tough decisions and when they don't work you deserve to face the consequences...it was time for JK to go

And speaking of the topic Fabian I hope he gets back to form and locks up one of the wings, the US is a much better team when Fabian is at top form, but when he's not he can also be a huge drag, CONCACAF Cup is a prime example, he had a terrible game and Mexico dominated us


Green Scored a goal. I agree Donovan should have been on the team, however, this is absolutely on him, had he done bare minimum of showing up at the camps etc and keeping is mouth shut, staying a bit more fit, he would have been on the team.

You look at Wondowlowski's Production in 2014, he had 14 goals, 16 in 2015. He is a poacher, and is still mighty fine according to the scoring stats. everyone would be chewing on mighty crappy shoes if Wondolowski had gone low on that goal or passed to Dempsey.

dolcem
Post #223
Friday July 28, 2017 10:12pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,759
Original post from Rey Regicide

JK hated Donovan.


Where do you get this from?

Klinsmann may not have liked Donovan's attitude, but hate? There's no evidence of that, it doesn't seem logical, and even if he did hate Donovan, none of us would know.
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chris_thebassplayer
San Jose
Post #224
Friday July 28, 2017 11:18pm

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 1,310
I don't know, one would have to believe the anti-LD sentiment was pretty strong in the JK household after hearing his son's tweet...Do you think he came up with that opinion on is own? Totally exposed JK's vibe.

dolcem
Post #225
Saturday July 29, 2017 11:56am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,759
Original post from chris_thebassplayer

I don't know, one would have to believe the anti-LD sentiment was pretty strong in the JK household after hearing his son's tweet...Do you think he came up with that opinion on is own? Totally exposed JK's vibe.


So we're basing our opinions off of a 17 year-old's tweet?

People are reading into it what they want to.

To me it seems quite simple. Klinsmann probably spoke of Donovan to his son as an example of whom not to be like. He probably said something like "Landon Donovan thinks that because of what he has done in the past, he gets a free pass and doesn't have to train hard anymore. Don't be like that." Of course I have no idea what he actually said, but considering that that is his philosophy, I bet it's close to the truth. And his son then reacted immaturely.

Even if he really did hate Donovan, do you think he would tell his son that? That would be pretty weird.

Regardless, it's a 17 year old's tweet we're talking about here. You really can't take it that seriously.

And even if Klinsmann actually hated Donovan, to think that he would cut him even if he thought he could contribute more than someone else is a pretty bold statement. Can any of us think of one instance ever when a professional coach hurt his own chances by cutting a player he had a personal vendetta against? I mean this stuff just doesn't happen at the highest levels. And Donovan is a nobody compared to Klinsmann anyway. Hate just wouldn't be a realistic emotion. It's not believable.

People point the finger at Klinsmann but no one criticizes Donovan for totally lacking commitment. No one can seriously argue that nationality isn't the main factor there.
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