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blaise213
Post #16
Wednesday December 31, 2014 1:46am

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 3,116
Slower

Can't believe with all the people in the US, we can't find and develop world class players. If will turn around when everyone starts playing futsal.

I think the US team has regressed a bit but could've been different if we didn't lose out on a few dual nationals (rossi, subotic, sakai, ponce)

I am beyond baffled why we can never produce a good left back!

admsghs27
Post #17
Wednesday December 31, 2014 1:48am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 6,060
Original post from MSantoine

Wrong. Results measure success and failure. Progress is moving towards the desired results.

Quick example:

An NFL team finishes 2-14 with a rookie qb. Next year they are 6-10 The next year they are 9-7 and just miss the playoffs. In three years they progressed from a crappy team to playoff caliber. Did the team succeed? No. No one will remember them if they dont KEEP progressing towards a championship appearance or title but you cant say they havent progressed.


Yeah that's on a yearly basis. We surpassed the 20 year project we were in from 1994-2014 and we haven't made long strides. A a matter of fact we did better in 1994 than in 2014 in terms of the World cup, would of been huge had we beat Brazil in 2007 but fell just short. At the end of the day results matter Look at all the teams that haven't won or been to a Superbowl sure they have their years here and there but that doesn't mean they have progressed results matters the most.

snipes87
Cleveland, Ohio
Post #18
Wednesday December 31, 2014 5:30am

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 894
I agree with dolcem on our player regression. How we don't have any players 26-32 that can play in Europe blows my mind. And it's a real problem. Jurgen wasn't brought in to win a world cup. He was brought in to do exactly what he's doing.. grow the player pool and begin to better develop these younger players. The fact he took a worse team (imo) in 2014 than Bob's 2010 team as far as he did is simply amazing. We had no business beating that Ghana team or getting out of that group.
If you don't love it, leave it, USA #1
admsghs27
Post #19
Wednesday December 31, 2014 6:08am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 6,060
Lol the recent poll says Jurgen klinnsman should be out as head coach. If he doesn't win the gold cup no doubt he should be gone no excuses, Bradley got it even tho they have done the same pretty much.

chris_thebassplayer
San Jose
Post #20
Wednesday December 31, 2014 6:20am

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 1,533
It's not a uniform progression for me. The threshold was 2010. Prior to that growth was glacial...post 2010 we are moving/ changing quite fast, especially in comparison to the stagnate years. We have a wider talent pool, and a rebuilt youth system...and far better ways of scouting dual nationals. We still need more talent and more impact players, but now we can entertain the thought of playing a more open game, instead of parking the bus and playing counter. We're not there yet because we still don't have enough skilled talent to play an open game against world class teams...we're getting there but it will take a least a cycle or two before we can see a noticeable difference. We're basically reinventing the wheel right now...changing the whole mindset and approach.

So I guess it would be stagnation.......fast...lag...faster

Okay that was way too much thinking...time for a Pliny.

mmee
Culver City, CA
Post #21
Wednesday December 31, 2014 11:20am

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 2,147
Original post from chris_thebassplayer

Okay that was way too much thinking...time for a Pliny.


Which Pliny? Pliny the Elder or Pliny the Younger?

Regardless of which ancient Roman you're reading, it will require some thinking.

mmee
Culver City, CA
Post #22
Wednesday December 31, 2014 11:35am

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 2,147
Original post from snipes87

How we don't have any players 26-32 that can play in Europe blows my mind.


You mean important players 26-32, right?

Geoff Cameron
Alejandro Bedoya
Brad Guzan
Stuart Holden ( :c let us shed a tear)
Fabian Johnson
Sacha Kljestan ( :C right rainorshine?)
Eric Lichaj
Tim Ream
Jonathan Spector

Cameron, Bedoya Guzan and F. Johnson are in the mix, by all appearances.

hamsamwich
Post #23
Wednesday December 31, 2014 12:13pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,321
As the forums resident history major, I laughed at the Pliny joke.

I also beg to differ that things haven't changed since '94. @christhebassplayer had the best comments so far alluding to our style of play changing. It isn't magic. Saying we haven't improved is like saying Mexico hasn't improved because they haven't gotten past the initial knockout round. However a keener eye will see vast improvement for our border fence bitches.... The USA in that same period has seen more growth than Mexico.

If all you want is a WC semifinal, then jump in the Jurgen bandwagon as we roll towards Russia. He has said the results are important, and now we may have the ammunition to fight that battle and win.

MSantoine
Post #24
Wednesday December 31, 2014 12:37pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,723
One thing to look at for recent progression:

2014 US players in big 4 Europe Leagues: 9 (Jozy, Guzan, Howard, Cameron, Fab, Brooks, Chandler, Gyau, Green)
2015 US players in big 4 leagues (including likely promotion teams): 15 (Jozy, Guzan, Howard, Cameron, Fab, Brooks, Chandler, Gyau, Green, Zelalam, Boyd, Morales, Soares, Hines, Yedlin)

Without taking into account any other potential transfers (Aron, Rubin, Mixx, Omar, Hyndman, Holmes) we're already looking like we will double our talent pool in the big 4 leagues. Id say thats progress.

snipes87
Cleveland, Ohio
Post #25
Wednesday December 31, 2014 5:26pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 894
Original post from mmee

You mean important players 26-32, right?

Geoff Cameron
Alejandro Bedoya
Brad Guzan
Stuart Holden ( :c let us shed a tear)
Fabian Johnson
Sacha Kljestan ( :C right rainorshine?)
Eric Lichaj
Tim Ream
Jonathan Spector

Cameron, Bedoya Guzan and F. Johnson are in the mix, by all appearances.


Yes, important players.. or just players who won't trip over themselves when they try to trap the ball. That list is depressing.
If you don't love it, leave it, USA #1
blaise213
Post #26
Wednesday December 31, 2014 6:33pm

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 3,116
Original post from admsghs27

Lol the recent poll says Jurgen klinnsman should be out as head coach. If he doesn't win the gold cup no doubt he should be gone no excuses, Bradley got it even tho they have done the same pretty much.


I think Klinsmann needs to be the technical director and we need to start looking for a new coach. Not only does he overwork the players in training, his tactics, roster selections, and substitutions all suck. He wants to be a possession style attacking team but always has defensive players in the line up. The landon donovan exclusion from the WC pissed me off more than anything.

navi8132
New York
Post #27
Wednesday December 31, 2014 6:44pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 3,122
Jurgen is staying until 2018 and you all know it...

dolcem
Post #28
Wednesday December 31, 2014 7:19pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,805
Original post from blaise213

Can't believe with all the people in the US, we can't find and develop world class players. If will turn around when everyone starts playing futsal.



+1000. This is the key to the development mystery. We won't produce any world class field players until we start playing the game the way it is played pretty much anywhere else in the world: nonstop pickup games at all ages. And the type of pickup that develops technique: futsal, for example, instead of indoor.

Original post from mmee

Which Pliny? Pliny the Elder or Pliny the Younger?

Regardless of which ancient Roman you're reading, it will require some thinking.


Love it, soccer is the only sport where such a comment would be allowed. Can't imagine the response you'd get on a gridiron forum. Crickets I'm sure.

Original post from MSantoine

One thing to look at for recent progression:

2014 US players in big 4 Europe Leagues: 9 (Jozy, Guzan, Howard, Cameron, Fab, Brooks, Chandler, Gyau, Green)
2015 US players in big 4 leagues (including likely promotion teams): 15 (Jozy, Guzan, Howard, Cameron, Fab, Brooks, Chandler, Gyau, Green, Zelalam, Boyd, Morales, Soares, Hines, Yedlin)

Without taking into account any other potential transfers (Aron, Rubin, Mixx, Omar, Hyndman, Holmes) we're already looking like we will double our talent pool in the big 4 leagues. Id say thats progress.


And how many of those players are dual nationals?

The list of American produced players playing in Europe is downright depressing. It's worse than it has been in years. We all thought that development would be a constant upward arc but it seems to have stagnated.

Original post from blaise213

I think Klinsmann needs to be the technical director and we need to start looking for a new coach. Not only does he overwork the players in training, his tactics, roster selections, and substitutions all suck. He wants to be a possession style attacking team but always has defensive players in the line up. The landon donovan exclusion from the WC pissed me off more than anything.


Really? That's what you think about when you think about the 2014 World Cup? The fact that fat-ass Donovan was left out of the squad and not how the team actually played there? Klinsmann is the best manager we've ever had period. No he's not Guardiola but we aren't going to get anyone better.
GET A CLUB TEAM
Dave
Post #29
Wednesday December 31, 2014 8:58pm

Joined Jul 2014
Total Posts: 1,061
The USMNT has improved over the past 20 yrs. Has it been as fast as we (fans) would have liked...No. Is the current lest of Americans abroad a bit depressing at times...Yes.
However, if you look at it from a slightly different angle you'll be able to see the significant steps that have been taken.
1) MLS has grown and the product has improved drastically. The skill level has improved enough that players in MLS are not too far behind their counterparts in Europe.
2) MLS Academies are in place and beginning to develop talent.
3) The US is actually winning over quality Duel Nationals (Johannsson, Green, Fabian, Brooks, Chandler, Boyd, Williams, etc....). The impact of these players will be seen & felt in the upcoming cycle more so than the past cycle.
4) Youth coming up through the ranks...there are more talented players to choose from who are just now starting to progress in their professional careers. (Rubin, Trapp, Kitchen, Gil, Zehelm, Arriola, Gyau, Wood, Morris, Stanko, Canouse, Hyndmann, etc...)
5) We're no longer holding onto our aging stars beyond their sell by date. Boca, Clark, Goodson, and others were phased out of the pool when it was shown that there were younger options that were of equal ability.

Things the USMNT still needs:
1) A tactician to pair with JK's motivation and vision. Someone who'll assist in the game plan development (Lowe).
2) An on field play maker who can establish & maintain possession and break down a opponents defense.
3) A deeper player pool (4 deep at ever position) to balance out all the competitions over the next 3 years, and cover the inevitable injuries.

hamsamwich
Post #30
Wednesday December 31, 2014 10:59pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,321
You guys keep banging on about the futsal etc but our kids play futsal. And indoor. And 5 a side. And pickup. The best players are just now getting integrated. For example, here in chicago I can go out on a limb and say we have plenty of pinedas and Fernandez and plenty of other kids like that, but others who are as good but not enough room on teams or they are too poor and can't break into the expensive set up.

An example is Dempsey whose parents drove 3 hours each way to get him to a competitive club team that Clint could progress in. If they didn't have the $$ or the dedication to get him in the program he'd be in east Texas right now playing on back fields with immigrant farm workers- that's what Clint said in so many words. There are thousands of dempseys out there we just have to get better at spotting them and including them in the program.

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