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Rey Regicide
Post #16
Friday December 5, 2014 3:05pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 2,001
Original post from 2tone

Gyau is still young and still has things to learn. For pete sake he will only be 25 for the next WC. Right when most players are hitting their prime. Am I sold on Gyau? Not totally, but I am not sold on most young players right now. Green has a ways to go, as does any 18 to 23 year olds in the player pool.

But I will say this Gyau was much more dangerous than Green was in the earlier friendly games. I am excited to have Joe back. Hopefully Klopp gives him many more minutes because Dortmund just look toothless in attack right now. I think if given the minutes Joe will seize the moment and become a regular for Klopp. I thought he looked really good with his 20 minute spell early in the season.

The one youth player that I am really excited about right now is Rubin.

Call me crazy but I would love to see this for the march friendlies:

-------AJ-----
Green-----Rubin----Gyau
-----Mix---Bradley---
Garza---Brooks--Jones--Yedlin or CHandler
-------Guzan------

Chandler is in some of the best form I have ever seen him in at the moment. So is Brooks.

My one area of concern with Garza, which has been an area of concern since his U-20 days, is that he lacks a bit of pace. I think that's why he has turned into a more of a stay at home LB versus a marauding fullback.

And my area of concern with Green is that he doesn't defend very well.

I could ultimately see Jordan Morris at LW over Green in the coming years.


You are not crazy, this is a damn solid lineup. Only thing I would change is to tell Bradley to get back to what you are best at doing, and put Nguyen in there.

Rey Regicide
Post #17
Friday December 5, 2014 3:23pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 2,001
Also, I would like to point out Cameron and Nguyen, two players developed right here in the states.

Both players comb the ball, meaning they take the spikes and actually roll it over the ball, in the same manner that Xavi, Iniesta, Pirlo etc, any player who is of any merit in midfield in Europe. When they want to change their vision, in small angles, or maintain contact with the ball without introducing too much energy. you SELDOM see Bradley, Jones, who prefer the upper part of the foot, the sides of the foot. to me, this is why Bradley is ill suited for that 10 role, because to make those quick laser fire touches and passes, your touch has to be infinitesimal. sharp, concise, which is why he truly prefers and excels in a deep recessed position where if he is hassled he can race up field or when given time, broader area on the foot, delivering more energy on the ball, of if he has sufficient amount of time, take his touch and find the proper angle (he's a genius at that) again not saying bradley is no good, on the contrary, just saying his technique suits him more for a different position

Let's make the comparison to basketball, the difference between a point guard dribbling or a center/forward/small forward,

There's tons of differences, granted but one of them is recognition of the seams on the ball, I don't know if you have noticed, but a point guard ALWAYS tries to find the seams on a dribble, for maximum grip, quick redirection and quick shot to get off in case it suits him

Another element is is treating the dribbling plane on the ground around you as a circle. Most forwards when they dribble will try to shield with their shoulders bend lower, take precaution when dribbling, you also see this in people who don't know how to play basketball. A true dribbling maestro doesn't sacrifice his vision by turning his upper body for protection of the ball, he tries to place the ball in the path where it creates the most amount of distance between it and the defender.

So what's all this about? I wanna know where Nguyen and Cameron picked this up, esp interesting in Cameron's case because he's VERY confident (not saying anything about his effectivity, which is still good) in tight spaces for a defender. These guys were made here. In plano texas, and in amherst Mass, wouldn't imagine what you would consider footballing hotbeds. Maybe internet? Maybe extensive football coverage in the states? I want to know how to make more of them.

hamsamwich
Post #18
Friday December 5, 2014 3:49pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,309
I think we played Bradley up there for defensive purposes and the ground he covered.

Beasley was from Fort Wayne etc. the list goes on.

These guys on the forum really do a good job of providing links to our U20s and even younger like the U17/18 type games. We have a wealth of young players in this style right now developed here in the USA at least from what I've seen. Better than Nguyen and Cameron I would add. So thank you to everyone for all the YouTube clips and videos etc the future is very bright for the USA from what I've seen.

Rey Regicide
Post #19
Friday December 5, 2014 3:54pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 2,001
Original post from hamsamwich

I think we played Bradley up there for defensive purposes and the ground he covered.

Beasley was from Fort Wayne etc. the list goes on.

These guys on the forum really do a good job of providing links to our U20s and even younger like the U17/18 type games. We have a wealth of young players in this style right now developed here in the USA at least from what I've seen. Better than Nguyen and Cameron I would add. So thank you to everyone for all the YouTube clips and videos etc the future is very bright for the USA from what I've seen.


Oh yea, it's not about who's better. I would still pick Bradley over Nguyen and Cameron.

the issue is the technique. the nitty gritty, nooks and cranny of what makes your game. Beasley's technique =D well. I don't mean to discredit him, but I honestly feel he gets by on 90 percent hustle and athleticism. Then tactical astuteness.

And I totally agree, the young guys, I'm all about them....

.... most of them learning their trade in foreign soil. I see Hyndman, totally in love with his technique. I know who he's learning from in England. I almost expect it.

I see Trapp, does the same roll back, I wonder how he picked it up. Just a matter of how we got the soccer "knowledge", and how we can get more, because it's very good.

hamsamwich
Post #20
Friday December 5, 2014 4:08pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,309
I can speak from what I've seen out of Larry Sunderland who runs the Fire Academy... We play a 4-3-3 for the most part at all of our youth levels. The question is the amount of pure athletes that have come through may be lacking, but the technical skills of Harry Shipp for example are what you are talking about. Victor and his brother Mauricio Pineda both have it. Wait until you guys see Collin Fernandez if you haven't yet, he's got that ability as well. Fantastic player, better than Harry Shipp.

Close touch games, 5v5, large field Dutch style games; the Fire do it all. But what I think is the most key of all is the coordination and knowledge of who is good, rather than whose parents pay X amount of money for a certain club. Teams like the Chicago Magic, the Sockers have always been good, but the unity of that, the USSF is all getting better, from my point of view. The best young players are playing the other best young players more often and in different types of games and environments.

We also play a lot of indoor/futsal here in Chicago, due to the long winter.

Rey Regicide
Post #21
Friday December 5, 2014 4:14pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 2,001
Original post from hamsamwich

I can speak from what I've seen out of Larry Sunderland who runs the Fire Academy... We play a 4-3-3 for the most part at all of our youth levels. The question is the amount of pure athletes that have come through may be lacking, but the technical skills of Harry Shipp for example are what you are talking about. Victor and his brother Mauricio Pineda both have it. Wait until you guys see Collin Fernandez if you haven't yet, he's got that ability as well. Fantastic player, better than Harry Shipp.

Close touch games, 5v5, large field Dutch style games; the Fire do it all. But what I think is the most key of all is the coordination and knowledge of who is good, rather than whose parents pay X amount of money for a certain club. Teams like the Chicago Magic, the Sockers have always been good, but the unity of that, the USSF is all getting better, from my point of view. The best young players are playing the other best young players more often and in different types of games and environments.

We also play a lot of indoor/futsal here in Chicago, due to the long winter.


Shipp has been a revelation, my only gripe is he should have been playing pro for awhile now. Do you know why it took so long to get him into the first team?

Rey Regicide
Post #22
Friday December 5, 2014 4:16pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 2,001
I'm reading on Fernandez and co. if what you're saying actually pans out, then next year is going to be incredibly exciting.

hamsamwich
Post #23
Friday December 5, 2014 5:16pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,309
Shipp is from Lake Forest where most of the Bulls and Bears players live. He's not unlike Jordan Morris in that his parents wanted him to get a college education because, let's face it, most guys don't pan out. He's a finance major from ND, could probably go straight into a 75K-100K job if he wasn't playing pro soccer. That's the trade off of our system, and what Brooks and Fabian were so jealous of when they went to Stanford...

Regarding our pro team, I'd say there still is a disconnect between yallop who likes veterans and the bottom up structure the club have developed. I'm sure that many fans of MLS clubs could say that about their specific organization, and the league as a whole. Are we a feeder league or a destination spot league for higher paid players? Will be interesting to find out as player development (Jurgen) and making $$$ and attracting fans (Garber) continue to butt heads.

dolcem
Post #24
Friday December 12, 2014 10:54pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,805
Original post from chris_thebassplayer

I think we just have a little lull right now. In a couple years we'll have a more players making their way in Europe.

Dolcem - Stay calm and follow Pulisic...


When you were watching the '02 World Cup, didn't you think to yourself, "I can't wait to see what kind of players we have in ten years?" Well it's been three World Cups since and we still haven't produced another Donovan, Reyna, or McBride. Considering the strides in youth development we've made and the exponentially larger numbers of kids playing the game, I thought we'd have produced a truly world class field player by this point, but while we are producing more good players, our best players aren't getting any better (aside from the dual nationals). This to me is rather troubling, but the reason is obvious: we still don't have enough young kids who play the sport the way it is in other countries (obsessively as soon as they can walk).

I will admit that when I hear about kids like Lederman, Sonora, Flores, Pulisic, the kids at the Real Madrid and Cruzeiro academies, I do get excited. But while it's great that we finally have kids playing at some of the world's best youth academies, the fact is that a low percentage of these players turn out to be pros. We'll see. I would be thrilled if just one of them could pull it together and emerge as a world class player. We may never have a Messi or Ronaldo in our life time but how about someone on the level of, say, Karim Benzema? Or Toni Kroos? David Silva?
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admsghs27
Post #25
Saturday December 13, 2014 4:00am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 6,060
Not related to America players in Europe but I'm watching the college soccer cup semis and is a very different style of game. There's no free flow playing is like every player playing their position seriously without leaving their lines.

Ohhh and ucla just scored to win it.

chris_thebassplayer
San Jose
Post #26
Saturday December 13, 2014 8:24am

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 1,533
Dolcem - I hear you. I think we took a big step in the right direction in the youth development within the last 4 years or so. The academy system and JK refining the approach. We kicked it up another notch just recently adding additional youth teams to fill in some gaps, and an improved coaching curriculum. I think there was a noticeable talent gap between 2002 and 2010. Right now we're just beginning to see the first wave of new talent coming through. We seem to have a lot more potential players that could be very solid nats players...instead of having just LD and Deuce...we could have 5-6 players in the pre-injury Stu to LD range. It would be nice to have a dominating international player, but that will take time, and in the mean time I'd be happy with half a dozen truly solid international level guys playing for the nats. Still there is probably a little gap before we start seeing guys like Pulisic making their way up the ranks in Europe, but they're coming.

dolcem
Post #27
Tuesday December 16, 2014 1:23pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,805
Original post from chris_thebassplayer

Dolcem - I hear you. I think we took a big step in the right direction in the youth development within the last 4 years or so. The academy system and JK refining the approach. We kicked it up another notch just recently adding additional youth teams to fill in some gaps, and an improved coaching curriculum. I think there was a noticeable talent gap between 2002 and 2010. Right now we're just beginning to see the first wave of new talent coming through. We seem to have a lot more potential players that could be very solid nats players...instead of having just LD and Deuce...we could have 5-6 players in the pre-injury Stu to LD range. It would be nice to have a dominating international player, but that will take time, and in the mean time I'd be happy with half a dozen truly solid international level guys playing for the nats. Still there is probably a little gap before we start seeing guys like Pulisic making their way up the ranks in Europe, but they're coming.


Agree with all of this, but still, I think now that our youth systems are really improving, by far the biggest problem is cultural, and we'll never become elite until that changes.
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