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admsghs27
Post #61
Thursday October 16, 2014 9:04pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 6,060
Many people have to Understand that is not just where you play. Some Countries just have the Talent is in their Blood, and DNA you cant take that away from them. For example a Brazilian kid vs an English kid, the English kid has been playing for 5 years already and the Brazilian kid has never played soccer, he steps on the field for the first time and wow's everyone and suddenly is the best player in their team.

chris_thebassplayer
San Jose
Post #62
Thursday October 16, 2014 9:15pm

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 1,464
Dolcem, I think you missed my main point. I don't want JK to be fired. I'm in his corner. I was just bringing up the point that there is a fair amount of tension. The bickering in the press is just the tip of the iceberg...there is a lot more beneath that. If the relationship turns real sour, there is a very possibility that JK could walk away.

USSF should have know what JK was going to bring to the table. Besides the optimism and sweetness and light is a ruthless Euro take on how to be competitive. It is utterly cutthroat...Americans aren't ready to deal with that. Some of his motivation techniques run counter to what we feel is fair in our soccer culture. If we want to truly advance we have to be cutthroat...all in.

Most likely some USSF people thought it wouldn't be so severe when they gave him the keys. But as we've seen, he has no problem slaughtering a few sacred cows along the way. He has a few more in his sites which could jeopardize locker room unity. I'm dead serious that if the tension is allowed to escalate, there could be a parting of the ways. That would be very bad and a step backward for US soccer.

MSantoine
Post #63
Thursday October 16, 2014 10:29pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,723
I can't believe this is such an arguement. EPL, la liga, bundesliga, and serie A are the top 4 leagues. Bar none. That's not debatable. The best teams have players in thise leagues.

The reason england struggles while Germany and spain dominate is spain is mostly barca and real guys. Germany is almost all bayern guys. England has Southampton guys and other mid table EPL guys. If they had all city and chelsea guys they'd contebd for the title too

admsghs27
Post #64
Thursday October 16, 2014 10:47pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 6,060
The point of the Argument is that JK wants players to play in those leagues at the highest level. And not MLS, which is not that easy because we simply don't have players that can play at a high level there and 90mins game in and out for their top 5 or even 10 clubs. But in case he did not know those clubs recognize our talent from MLS. I know we have youth players in some of the best leagues and clubs but we will see if they actually make it in a couple years down the road. Until then there is no need to blast MLS it will always be key in our MNT success.

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #65
Thursday October 16, 2014 11:31pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 10,247
Original post from MSantoine

I can't believe this is such an arguement. EPL, la liga, bundesliga, and serie A are the top 4 leagues. Bar none. That's not debatable. The best teams have players in thise leagues.

The reason england struggles while Germany and spain dominate is spain is mostly barca and real guys. Germany is almost all bayern guys. England has Southampton guys and other mid table EPL guys. If they had all city and chelsea guys they'd contebd for the title too


Actually this is a bit misleading:

Germany 2014 had: 7 Bayern Munich players, 4 Dortmund players, 2 Schalke players, 1 Hannover, 1 Monchengladbach, 1 Frieburg players, 3 Arsenal players, 1 Chelsea player, 1 Real Madrid Player, 1 Lazio player, and 1 Sampdoria player.

Spain 2010 had: 5 Real Madrid players, 7 Barcelona players, 4 Valencia players, 2 Athletic Bilboa players, 1 Villarreal, 1 Sevilla, 2 Liverpool, 1 Arsenal.

England 2010: 5 Tottenham players, 4 Chelsea players, 3 Liverpool players, 2 Manchester United and 2 Manchester City players, 2 West Ham, 3 Aston Villa, 1 Portsmouth(GK), 1 Birmingham City(GK).

Spain 2014: 3 Real Madrid, 7 Barcelona, 4 Atletico Madrid, 2 Napoli, 2 Manchester United, 2 Chelsea, 1 Arsenal, 1 Manchester City.

England 2014: 5 Liverpool, 4 Manchester United, 3 Everton, 3 Southhampton, 2 Chelsea, 2 Arsenal, 2 Manchester City, 1 West Brom(Gk), 1 Celtic(GK).

2010 Germany: 7 Bayern Munich, 4 Hamburg, 4 Werder Bremen, 3 Leverkusen, 3 Stuttgart, 1 Kolln, 1 Schalke.

Yes Bayern Munich usually has the most players on Germany's team.

And yes Spain usually takes most of their players form Real Madrid and Barcelona.

But England takes many players from the Big teams in the EPL as well. 5 from Liverpool this last WC that's only two less than what Bayern Munich gave to Germany for the 2014 WC.

Surprisngly in 2006 Germany only had 4 Bayern Munich players on the WC roster.

Chelsea put in 4 English players on Englands final WC roster in 2006.

In 2006 Spain only had 3 Barcelona and 3 Real Madrid players on their final WC roster. Valencia had 4 players on that WC team.

So as you can see sometimes the big boys even in Spain and Germany don't always put up the most players on a WC roster.

dunlopp9987
Post #66
Thursday October 16, 2014 11:50pm

Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts: 2,641
So as we can see, recent winners of major international tournaments had a large contingent of domestic based players on their rosters. However, MLS IS NOT LA LIGA, BUNDESLIGA, or SERIE A. And it won't be for decades. So this whole argument that people are trying to make, that "you're only going to win a tournament if you have a mostly-domestic based roster" is true. However, NOT WHEN YOUR ROSTER IS MLS.

I don't ever see us winning a major international tournament where more than half of our roster is MLS-based. It just won't happen.
COYB!!
Rey Regicide
Post #67
Friday October 17, 2014 1:34am

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 2,001
Saying the MLS not at the level of the top European teams is NOT blasting the MLS.

Saying that you want your players there, especially your best players is NOT saying that the MLS is worthless.

Saying that if you come back to the MLS and you expect them to rule the league is NOT too much to ask for, and if they don't, there is reason to ask for more, the only question is where you want to demand this. In public or in private.

Dutch team aside from Germany is BETTER THAN ANY OF THOSE OTHER TEAMS. England Spain etc and they have EVERYONE OF MERIT outside because that's where they belong. Same with France. Same with Belgium. No i'm not saying those last two are the top 5, but they are better than England Italy and Spain.

admsghs27
Post #68
Friday October 17, 2014 1:43am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 6,060
USA will never ever win a tournament with all euro based players. They will need MLS and Liga mx players also.

Rey Regicide
Post #69
Friday October 17, 2014 1:59am

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 2,001
Original post from admsghs27

USA will never ever win a tournament with all euro based players. They will need MLS and Liga mx players also.


Only because we will never win one, if that's the sad reality, otherwise, we are going to need them playing at the highest level, otherwise, you are banking on MLS being as good as the other leagues. I don't want to explain how that is more improbable.

admsghs27
Post #70
Friday October 17, 2014 2:08am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 6,060
I think USA will eventually win a FIFA tournament in my lifetime. Maybe not a WC but a Cops America or Confederations cup. Even a sub 20 WC will be huge since most or all play proffesionally.

Rey Regicide
Post #71
Friday October 17, 2014 2:14am

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 2,001
Original post from admsghs27

I think USA will eventually win a FIFA tournament in my lifetime. Maybe not a WC but a Cops America or Confederations cup. Even a sub 20 WC will be huge since most or all play proffesionally.


HELL YEA

And we WILL do it, but I want it NOW, and to do it the quickest way possible, requires other leagues taking interest in the undervalued commodity that is USA soccer youth, training them, nurturing them using them to win titles int heir domestic leagues which prove arduous and most strenuous in the world, then they come back and combine their skill set with the pride they feel when the national anthem goes on.

That is the most probable of circumstances.

The other way of us totally lifting the talent floor level up to the height of the other leagues by not diluting our talent pool (ala England as others noted correctly), will either prove too costly or take too much time to do in less than 20 to 30 years. Im' not talking about filling up a national team with MLS players, I'm talking about filling MLs teams with every single one of those players a prospect for youth national teams, in academies and highly valued, and having enough talent to spread across 40 teams for a relegation system. Which itself is another box of worms, or pandorra's can to open.

Rey Regicide
Post #72
Friday October 17, 2014 2:18am

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 2,001
Also interesting conversation between Twellman and Lalas, and Twellman admitting that he fell victim to Bradley's razor during his tenure as NT coach. Saying he was egging him to get onto Preston North End.

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #73
Friday October 17, 2014 6:05am

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 10,247
Original post from dunlopp9987

So as we can see, recent winners of major international tournaments had a large contingent of domestic based players on their rosters. However, MLS IS NOT LA LIGA, BUNDESLIGA, or SERIE A. And it won't be for decades. So this whole argument that people are trying to make, that "you're only going to win a tournament if you have a mostly-domestic based roster" is true. However, NOT WHEN YOUR ROSTER IS MLS.

I don't ever see us winning a major international tournament where more than half of our roster is MLS-based. It just won't happen.


The farthest the USMNT has made it in a modern WC was in 2002 with half of the roster made up with MLS players. Yes they didn't win it, but to say it won't ever happen is a reckless opinion.

MLS will only get better and produce better players. Not every outstanding player that comes from the USA/MLS production line will go over to Europe, especially when MLS salary's continue to increase. I bet you see more Landon Donovan type decisions with young talent in the future. There are many amenities in the States that even Western European countries just don't have.

I have not seen a country win the World Cup where it's entire player roster comes from foreign based teams.

I will predict that the 2018 WC roster has at least 8 to 12 MLS players on it. And that that team goes deep in the tournament.

I wouldn't be surprised that by 2030 that the USMNT WC roster is made mostly from MLS based players. But I also won't be surprised if we have few players coming from Elite European teams by then as well.

I also won't be surprised that by 2030 that MLS is a destination league for many top players from around the world.

soccerdevils
Post #74
Friday October 17, 2014 6:13am

Joined Apr 2013
Total Posts: 23
ARRRRGHHHHHH I Have Awoken from my Slumber and i am very irritated for what has been going on Lately. It is an Absolute shame for what Jurgen Klinsmann has said about MLS. He has been digging his grave deeper and deeper as of late, i have my word if he continues to be blind and Arrogant i will make it my will to bring him to Hell. I Will live On and continue to make the evils of Earth Disappear as well as The Ignorant Followers that accompany Negative presence of our Country. You all have been WARNED!!!!
for I am the ruler of soccer, and no God cant touch me..
2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #75
Friday October 17, 2014 6:21am

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 10,247
Original post from MSantoine

Again with this pointless stat. Argentina was almost completely foreign based and made the final. Same as 2010 Netherlands. Brazil won the confederations cup with more foreign guys then had almost strictly foreign guys and made the semis and may have won if not for neymar a injury.

Good teams have players play I'm good leagues. Germany spain and Italy will always be domestic based. There leagues pay enough to keep the stars.

Russia, turkey, Greece, Japan, South Korea, Mexico are always domestic dominated and how many QF runs have those teams made the last 3 workd cups?


Did Argentina or Holland win? Nope. Argentina hasn't won an International tournament since 1993. Argentina had a good run at this WC. But the really good Argentina teams of old were comprised with a lot of Domestic players. That Argentina team in 1986 was comprised of 15 domestic players. Their last Senior Argentina international win at Copa America in 1993 had 14 domestic players.

Holland showed well in two consecutive tournaments, but if you look closely the 2014 Holland team was comprised of 10 domestic players. And they played as more of a team in 2014 then they did in 2010.

I keep throwing out facts.

You are more than welcome to have your opinion, but my facts support my argument.

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