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mmee
Culver City, CA
Post #16
Thursday October 16, 2014 1:39am

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 2,147
As a riptide undernearth this conflict, it's bugging the crap out of me that JK is playing MB out of position and talking crap about him at the same time.
Whipping boy #2.

Fricking switch MD and MB already, what are you trying to prove?
You want MB to move? Don't play him as a #10. If the #10 spot is the big problem, start the auditions; quit avoiding the problem.

Also, whether Garber is a dummy or not (he is), the commish should protect the brand from damage. It's not going to help ussoccer to have MLS looked down on by ussoccer fans. A little bit of dumb love couldn't hurt. Tired of MLS getting it from both sides (soccer snobs and soccer haters) just because it isn't "The Best". Yeah, the schedule is stupid and they have a history of some bad choices under pressure. Growing pains. The salary structure is REALLY lame right now, and it's why Liga MX is better. MLS is a few haves and a bunch of have-nots.

So JK would rather have MB and CD fight for minutes at a low-table club in order to fight for minutes in Europa in order to fight for minutes at a top club in order to fight for minutes at a CL club and hopefully play.
They would rather seek market value and play. How much can you blame them for taking 3 times the salary and playing when you have a __ year career and then hang up the cleats? There are specific player types who cannot be a small fish in a big pond for years for less money. Not every player has the same psychology.

Lastly, the US track record for our best players being a hero at mid-table teams that sometimes play Europa is not bad, but there may be a glass ceiling even being a role player for top teams. FRIEDEL didn't get to play CL. Nobody picked up Cherundolo or Howard, either. Was there really no one worse than them in the CL during those years?

So I don't see what actual, practical purpose it serves for JK to publicly talk down MLS, and say that our best players have to play CL when they can't play CL. Meanwhile he loves the balls off of Jozy who, in terms of club play has nothing to recommend him except that we have nobody better. (I don't dislike JA, I just don't see worlds of difference between drowning at Sunderland and playing for Seattle or Toronto. Sure the opponents are better. How does that help if your confidence is wrecked?)

He's a conceited brat with a helicopter who hands-down makes mistakes (WC2014 player selection for arguably 4 slots. Trying for force Bradley to be a #10. Repeatedly making himself the story in ways that make him a divider.). You would think what he really wants is for our players to have more pedigree, as if we can just force academies-through-CL-teams to take our players. He's not really a "yes we can" guy. He's a "why couldn't you?" guy.

We need to grow the game at home to get to the point where we have multiple CL players. It's 10-30 years away, and parts of that are:
-develop the mediocre league we have
-don't push Americans who are casual soccer fans away with JK's snobbery about our league, our players, and our American sports mindset (which on the upside causes us to do things like defeat Spain in the Confed cup).

admsghs27
Post #17
Thursday October 16, 2014 1:54am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 6,060
Original post from mmee

As a riptide undernearth this conflict, it's bugging the crap out of me that JK is playing MB out of position and talking crap about him at the same time.
Whipping boy #2.

Fricking switch MD and MB already, what are you trying to prove?
You want MB to move? Don't play him as a #10. If the #10 spot is the big problem, start the auditions; quit avoiding the problem.

Also, whether Garber is a dummy or not (he is), the commish should protect the brand from damage. It's not going to help ussoccer to have MLS looked down on by ussoccer fans. A little bit of dumb love couldn't hurt. Tired of MLS getting it from both sides (soccer snobs and soccer haters) just because it isn't "The Best". Yeah, the schedule is stupid and they have a history of some bad choices under pressure. Growing pains. The salary structure is REALLY lame right now, and it's why Liga MX is better. MLS is a few haves and a bunch of have-nots.

So JK would rather have MB and CD fight for minutes at a low-table club in order to fight for minutes in Europa in order to fight for minutes at a top club in order to fight for minutes at a CL club and hopefully play.
They would rather seek market value and play. How much can you blame them for taking 3 times the salary and playing when you have a __ year career and then hang up the cleats? There are specific player types who cannot be a small fish in a big pond for years for less money. Not every player has the same psychology.

Lastly, the US track record for our best players being a hero at mid-table teams that sometimes play Europa is not bad, but there may be a glass ceiling even being a role player for top teams. FRIEDEL didn't get to play CL. Nobody picked up Cherundolo or Howard, either. Was there really no one worse than them in the CL during those years?

So I don't see what actual, practical purpose it serves for JK to publicly talk down MLS, and say that our best players have to play CL when they can't play CL. Meanwhile he loves the balls off of Jozy who, in terms of club play has nothing to recommend him except that we have nobody better. (I don't dislike JA, I just don't see worlds of difference between drowning at Sunderland and playing for Seattle or Toronto. Sure the opponents are better. How does that help if your confidence is wrecked?)

He's a conceited brat with a helicopter who hands-down makes mistakes (WC2014 player selection for arguably 4 slots. Trying for force Bradley to be a #10. Repeatedly making himself the story in ways that make him a divider.). You would think what he really wants is for our players to have more pedigree, as if we can just force academies-through-CL-teams to take our players. He's not really a "yes we can" guy. He's a "why couldn't you?" guy.

We need to grow the game at home to get to the point where we have multiple CL players. It's 10-30 years away, and parts of that are:
-develop the mediocre league we have
-don't push Americans who are casual soccer fans away with JK's snobbery about our league, our players, and our American sports mindset (which on the upside causes us to do things like defeat Spain in the Confed cup).


Hear hear everyone!!! +100

Jzaval01
Post #18
Thursday October 16, 2014 2:02am

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 3,315
I love the arguing. Makes people realize what happening in MLS and USMNT. Also puts pressure on MLS and keeps pushing it.

The only reason Liga MX is better is because they buy top south american talent meaning more money is the reason. I mean for gods sake they bought Enner Valencia (guy who tied game for Ecuador against us) when he was top scorer in Copa Lib. THat part is so obvious.

MSantoine
Post #19
Thursday October 16, 2014 2:03am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,723
Not a klins fan at all but it's telling that an inexperienced euro based roster beat Czech Republic while a team with mls vets couldn't win at home against lesser opponents.

admsghs27
Post #20
Thursday October 16, 2014 2:15am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 6,060
Original post from MSantoine

Not a klins fan at all but it's telling that an inexperienced euro based roster beat Czech Republic while a team with mls vets couldn't win at home against lesser opponents.


Let's not forget there were a few mls, liga mx players playing that game. And if memory serves me right the player of the game was from MLS, nick rimando.

dunlopp9987
Post #21
Thursday October 16, 2014 2:26am

Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts: 2,642
As I've said, Jurgen was an idiot for publicly lambasting MLS. Just no need to do it.

But are we really criticizing a coach who is pushing his players to play against the best?? To go challenge themselves by playing the best teams in the best leagues in the world?? How is this something people can argue???
COYB!!
admsghs27
Post #22
Thursday October 16, 2014 2:55am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 6,060
Original post from dunlopp9987

As I've said, Jurgen was an idiot for publicly lambasting MLS. Just no need to do it.

But are we really criticizing a coach who is pushing his players to play against the best?? To go challenge themselves by playing the best teams in the best leagues in the world?? How is this something people can argue???


I see his view of point but we just simply don't have many players that can play for a top 5 team in the top 3 or 4 leagues in Europe. I mean some might get signed but for what riding the bench struggling for minutes, playing meaningless reserve games, I would rather take an MLS player playing 90 game in and out.

snipes87
Cleveland, Ohio
Post #23
Thursday October 16, 2014 2:59am

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 886
It's not like Jurgen came out and said the MLS is crap. He stated the obvious that MLS < Euroland. And he's probably sick to his stomach players like Dempsey, MB, Donovan, the KC boys choose MLS. He needs to send a message to the younger players that once you out grow MLS then it's time to play with the big boys. I would be perfectly fine with no MB for a while. It's not like he has shown up, other than 1 good pass to jozy, in the last several months. Out of position or not.
If you don't love it, leave it, USA #1
admsghs27
Post #24
Thursday October 16, 2014 3:23am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 6,060
Original post from snipes87

It's not like Jurgen came out and said the MLS is crap. He stated the obvious that MLS < Euroland. And he's probably sick to his stomach players like Dempsey, MB, Donovan, the KC boys choose MLS. He needs to send a message to the younger players that once you out grow MLS then it's time to play with the big boys. I would be perfectly fine with no MB for a while. It's not like he has shown up, other than 1 good pass to jozy, in the last several months. Out of position or not.


So playing in clubs like Sunderland, stoke city, fulham, bolton, rosenberg, 1860 Munich, reserve clubs like bayern, berlin, or AZ alkmar, rapid vienna, inglodstad, ect... Are big boy clubs ??? Hmm some of those clubs are below MLS level in my opinion. Walk down the street or go into a bar or something and ask an average soccer fan about those clubs they won't know what the hell your talking about.

dunlopp9987
Post #25
Thursday October 16, 2014 3:40am

Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts: 2,642
Original post from admsghs27

So playing in clubs like Sunderland, stoke city, fulham, bolton, rosenberg, 1860 Munich, reserve clubs like bayern, berlin, or AZ alkmar, rapid vienna, inglodstad, ect... Are big boy clubs ??? Hmm some of those clubs are below MLS level in my opinion. Walk down the street or go into a bar or something and ask an average soccer fan about those clubs they won't know what the hell your talking about.


Well yeah, in an American bar. Go to a bar in Europe and ask about the San Jose Earthquakes and they will likely ask if they were the team that just won the super bowl.
COYB!!
Jzaval01
Post #26
Thursday October 16, 2014 3:54am

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 3,315
"I regret not saying this at that time, and I'll say it now: I believe Landon should have been in Brazil," Garber said. "Not because he earned it or deserved it, but because his performance dictated it. And if anyone disagrees with that - clearly Jurgen did - then I believe his treatment was inexcusable."

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2014/10...

More shots fired?

Live490
Texas
Post #27
Thursday October 16, 2014 4:04am

Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts: 1,174
We don't have the players to compete, maybe just a few but they're 32-31. Plus, no one really wants an American. I'm with Garber on this. Go ride the pine or actually play? I would rather have them play in Mexico in a team with Libertadores than Holland, Bnorway, or any small leagues.

dunlopp9987
Post #28
Thursday October 16, 2014 4:11am

Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts: 2,642
Original post from Live490

We don't have the players to compete, maybe just a few but they're 32-31. Plus, no one really wants an American. I'm with Garber on this. Go ride the pine or actually play? I would rather have them play in Mexico in a team with Libertadores than Holland, Bnorway, or any small leagues.


Don't lump Holland in with Norway or other small leagues. The Eredivisie is right behind the Big 5 (Spain, England, Germany, Italy, France). It's a good league.
COYB!!
dolcem
Post #29
Thursday October 16, 2014 4:25am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,805
Do you people want a USNT coach that doesn't want our players playing in top leagues? That tells key players on our national team to go to an inferior league for a bigger paycheck?

Michael Bradley spent the first half of last season on the bench mostly. Rather than go on loan or try to stick it out for minutes, he decided to go for the big MLS paycheck (that he easily could have gotten after the World Cup, or could have signed with the transfer date being in July) and spend a few months OUT OF SOCCER and then, right before the World Cup, start playing for a team that was being built from scratch in an inferior league (let's be real, MLS is NOT Serie A). And guess what? He BLEW during the World Cup, whether he was playing high up on the pitch or sitting deep. And he still hasn't looked good for us. What a surprise.

[And I don't buy this #10 crap because from what I saw, we were playing a 4-5-1 with Dempsey as the #10 and Mix and Bradley as CM's. Bradley was sitting higher up than Mix but playing as a two-way CM, which is supposed to be his position. I was the only one on the forums that wanted Bradley to play as a dedicated #6 prior to the World Cup and was ridiculed by everyone for it because Bradley was supposedly our "quarterback" and the engine of our offense. Now all of the same people are saying that he is a DM and that he isn't playing well because Klinsmann is using him in an advanced role...this is ridiculous. Bradley has played extensively as a #6, #8, and even a #10 (Herenveen) throughout his career. He is playing poorly because he took a big step down to an inferior league for the paycheck...one reason I don't want to see him made captain.]

It's one thing to go back to the MLS in your 30's, that should be encouraged. But if you're supposed to be the lynchpin of the national team and you're in your mid 20's, don't you think you should be pushing yourself at the highest level?

Klinsmann used more MLS players than Coach Bob did. He's not anti-MLS, it's a stepping stone in a player's development and he recognizes that. But any serious coach is going to want his players to play in the top leagues when possible. Jozy's situation sucks but that does NOT mean he should go back to the MLS. He should go to Ligue 1 or maybe a lower-tier Bundesliga team, that is going to keep him in much better form, and any USNT fan should want this.

The MLS is going to get better by improving its youth development (sprinkling in a few DP's, while important, is not going to make a big enough differnece), not by by offering key USNT players big contracts to stay here. Look at Mexico, they can never make it to the next level because the Liga MX salaries are so high few of their players make it to Europe. This is what separates them from Argentina, Brazil, and even Uruguay.

If Klinsmann were American (or maybe if he hadn't excluded Donovan) no one would find fault with his comments.
GET A CLUB TEAM
chris_thebassplayer
San Jose
Post #30
Thursday October 16, 2014 4:57am

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 1,483
This is more deep seated than the back and forth over the merits of US players coming back to MLS. I support JK and think he's doing a good job, but his way to motivate players might be grating on not only Garber, but possibly Sunil and others within USSF.

I believe a lot of them held their tongues during the WC omission of LD...that was probably the start of the friction. Regardless of how you or I feel about that...that's been beaten into the ground. But there were probably a few USSF big wigs that disagreed with the way JK handled the situation...they probably took it in a very negative way that the face of American soccer was being minimized in that way.

I don't feel good about the relationship between JK and MLS/USSF...cracks are starting to form. Who knows what the locker room vibe is with Deuce and MB and the other MLS players. If they feel they're being held to a different standard than the Euro players. I think this whole thing is going to blow up long before the WC... If they don't mend fences...I don't think JK will still be the coach in 2018.

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