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skangles
DC
Post #1
Tuesday August 26, 2014 2:45am

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 5,169
ESPN has an article up that says that the Red Bulls are not for sale but they will be changing their philosophy. It contains a really frustrating quote from Mike Petke who should know better.

"That said, you look at the success of teams in this league like Kansas City or Real Salt Lake, their top players were lower-profile guys. We need to go scouring South America for that 22-23-year-old who has the ability and wants to make a name for himself, pay him in that $800,000 to $2 million range and build a team around that." (Cahill and Henry will earn a combined $8 million this year.)


When has scouring South America been the recipe for success? The MLS has definitely benefited from South Americans like Higuin, Valeri, Morales, Castillo etc. but are these guys really any better for the league than Americans like Beckerman, Zusi, Magee? Magee is the defending MVP and he's not even on a DP contract!

If you go with this 22-23 year old approach you have a DP like Mattias Laba. Forget about salaries, would anybody take Laba over Will Trapp or Perry Kitchen? I definitely wouldn't.

Even using SKC as the poster child that NYRB are aspiring to be, SKC have arguably wasted a DP spot on South American Bieler.

Then there's the DC United approach. They've used one DP, EJ, who has been a major disappointment and they've built a successful team around good but not great players (Boswell, Franklin, Arnaud, Rolfe, Espindola). They've had a crazy one year turn around with this strategy.

The NYRB can also look in the mirror and realize that they've made a heck of a lower profile move with Wright-Phillips. They could also go after some non-DP players trying to find another Wright-Phillips but if they want to waste a bunch of money trying to lure young South Americans to the MLS, I'll be happy to watch NYCFC leave them in their dust.

Rant Over.

http://www.espnfc.com/major-league-soccer/19/...

EKneezy
Atlanta
Post #2
Tuesday August 26, 2014 2:56am

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 2,894
One thing I've noticed about NY is that they have no youth players breaking through. Miazga isn't ready. Santiago Costanzo as well. Connor Lade is meh. They have a few in their academy but that's a long way down the road though.

nolefansandy
Post #3
Tuesday August 26, 2014 4:11am

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 284
Red Bulls' academy is stacked and they are forming there own USL Pro side starting next season. Wait til next year when all of NYRB's young guys are actually getting playing time in the USL Pro

Rey Regicide
Post #4
Tuesday August 26, 2014 1:11pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 1,766
Original post from skangles

ESPN has an article up that says that the Red Bulls are not for sale but they will be changing their philosophy. It contains a really frustrating quote from Mike Petke who should know better.

When has scouring South America been the recipe for success? The MLS has definitely benefited from South Americans like Higuin, Valeri, Morales, Castillo etc. but are these guys really any better for the league than Americans like Beckerman, Zusi, Magee? Magee is the defending MVP and he's not even on a DP contract!

If you go with this 22-23 year old approach you have a DP like Mattias Laba. Forget about salaries, would anybody take Laba over Will Trapp or Perry Kitchen? I definitely wouldn't.

Even using SKC as the poster child that NYRB are aspiring to be, SKC have arguably wasted a DP spot on South American Bieler.

Freddy Montero, ALvaro FErnandez, Carlos Valdez, guys who played in World Cups

Then there's the DC United approach. They've used one DP, EJ, who has been a major disappointment and they've built a successful team around good but not great players (Boswell, Franklin, Arnaud, Rolfe, Espindola). They've had a crazy one year turn around with this strategy.

The NYRB can also look in the mirror and realize that they've made a heck of a lower profile move with Wright-Phillips. They could also go after some non-DP players trying to find another Wright-Phillips but if they want to waste a bunch of money trying to lure young South Americans to the MLS, I'll be happy to watch NYCFC leave them in their dust.

Rant Over.

http://www.espnfc.com/major-league-soccer/19/...


tylercocinas
Post #5
Tuesday August 26, 2014 1:46pm

Joined Aug 2012
Total Posts: 1,100
Sorry Skangles even though I hate NYRB through and through, I like their new focus. I don't think it means that they will stop bringing in players like Bradley Wright-Phillips to help the team improve not does it mean they won't go for talented Americans, but I do think it means that they are focused on being smarter about the way they invest their resources. I think it also bears mentioning that scouting in South America requires an effective network of people who can identify players that will be able to make the transition to MLS. Because I am the most familiar with DC United I will use them as an example. They have a horrible track record post 2007 of bringing in not only South American, but foreign talent in general. It has literally been one flop after another. At this point it was in the club's best interest to focus on what they do well which is bringing in American talent. That doesn't mean that there is no point in other clubs going after effective South American players who are hungry to make a name for themselves.

I agree that Red Bulls have one of the best academies in MLS. Guys like Miazga might not be ready now but in a year, year and a half it could be a different story. Overall I think this is only a positive development for NYRB.

skangles
DC
Post #6
Tuesday August 26, 2014 4:03pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 5,169
I don't have issue with foreign players as they've been valuable to the league. I do think that teams tend to waste valuable resources on foreign players more often than on American players. It's a riskier venture so I struggle with the comment that the red bulls will scour South America to find young players on a $800k to $2m contract as the solution.

Lets looks at a few examples. At Forward Toronto dropped $1.1m and a DP spot on Gilberto and FC Dallas spent $340k and a DP spot on David Texiera. These are two examples of young South Americans on big money. How have these guys been any better than Magee $350k, McInerney $230k, Wenger $140k or Deshorn Brown $70k? Similarly how is Laba a DP earning $300k any more valuable than Kitchen at $145k or Trapp at $120k?

So far this go sign young South American DPs strategy doesn't appear to be the best method of utilizing resources. That's my point.

Rey Regicide
Post #7
Tuesday August 26, 2014 5:12pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 1,766
Original post from skangles

I don't have issue with foreign players as they've been valuable to the league. I do think that teams tend to waste valuable resources on foreign players more often than on American players. It's a riskier venture so I struggle with the comment that the red bulls will scour South America to find young players on a $800k to $2m contract as the solution.

Lets looks at a few examples. At Forward Toronto dropped $1.1m and a DP spot on Gilberto and FC Dallas spent $340k and a DP spot on David Texiera. These are two examples of young South Americans on big money. How have these guys been any better than Magee $350k, McInerney $230k, Wenger $140k or Deshorn Brown $70k? Similarly how is Laba a DP earning $300k any more valuable than Kitchen at $145k or Trapp at $120k?

So far this go sign young South American DPs strategy doesn't appear to be the best method of utilizing resources. That's my point.


What were Montero, Alvaro Fernandez, Toja etc, were those DP?s Cause those are better players.

MSantoine
Post #8
Tuesday August 26, 2014 8:00pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,705
Original post from skangles

I don't have issue with foreign players as they've been valuable to the league. I do think that teams tend to waste valuable resources on foreign players more often than on American players. It's a riskier venture so I struggle with the comment that the red bulls will scour South America to find young players on a $800k to $2m contract as the solution.

Lets looks at a few examples. At Forward Toronto dropped $1.1m and a DP spot on Gilberto and FC Dallas spent $340k and a DP spot on David Texiera. These are two examples of young South Americans on big money. How have these guys been any better than Magee $350k, McInerney $230k, Wenger $140k or Deshorn Brown $70k? Similarly how is Laba a DP earning $300k any more valuable than Kitchen at $145k or Trapp at $120k?

So far this go sign young South American DPs strategy doesn't appear to be the best method of utilizing resources. That's my point.


I think one reason could be that young south americans have much more resell value to european leagues. Look at Gonzalez, najar, other hispanic/south american MLS guys that have transferred over. They've returned more money than guys like Cameron, Shea. So yes JackMac is better at 230k then Tex at 340k but Dallas would probably fetch a higher transfer fee than Phily if both were offered to European clubs.

Jzaval01
Post #9
Tuesday August 26, 2014 8:29pm

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 3,174
It goes both ways with South Americans. I mean we dont really bring the players that are regarded as high prospects in South America. For example oscar, Neymar when they played in Brazil you know, players of that caliber would be amazing for MLS. But you also have south americans that want to make a name for example the RSL set up bring quality players like Joao PLata who will play for Ecuador or O. Garcia a colombia both young still. Or even Cubo from Chivas. Bringing south american bring more attention to the league from South Americans and that overall is what is best for MLS as well. Some just pan out because their scouting system might not be as good as RSL's

mmee
Culver City, CA
Post #10
Thursday December 4, 2014 4:07am

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 1,871
Though I feel for their long-suffering fans- I love rooting against them:
-picked up Marquez
-named after energy drink

While they're changing their philosophy, they should change their name.

skangles
DC
Post #11
Thursday December 4, 2014 4:18am

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 5,169
I hear the Metrostars is available! By its own right the Metrostars is a terrible name but I like the nostalgia.

If Red Bull wants the team named after them so be it but at least call the team Red Bull New York to be consistent with their other global teams. I cannot stand that they're called the New York Red Bulls. It's like fingernails on a chalk board for me.

mmee
Culver City, CA
Post #12
Thursday December 4, 2014 10:54pm

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 1,871
Mountain Dew New York

rainORshine
Post #13
Friday December 5, 2014 12:16am

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 2,097
i disagree with petke/NYRB. NY should follow lead of LAG, who have done just fine with signing high profile, big $ players. they just need much better management, better rosters and, if being honest, a better coach. dont pull your CM (alexander) to chase a goal 70 mins into a 180 m tie. if you had not done (and given up a late 2nd goal at home) that you probably would have won the series...

but on another note... finding talented foreign-born players - young or old and south american or otherwise - to run CM positions HAS been a key to building MLS champ caliber success...

mccarty/alexander? solid, but probably not quite enough to lift you to the top of the MLS mountain

from bolivian marco etcheverry pulling strings for DC in MLS early years to brazilians juninho and sarvas in the middle for LA and german-born jones for NE in 2014

last season a foundation for SKC was the veteran brazilian nagamura and the young spaniard oriol rosell in the middle

it was david beckham pairing juninho centrally that sparked LAs most recent dynasty (if they win sunday) - with cups in 11 and 12

colorado made an unlikely run in 2010 behind argentine-born US international CM pablo mastroeni

salt lakes run (and 09 MLS cup) has been contingent on argentine morales

before that the best team was run in the middle by another argentine - schelotto with columbus (08 cup)

houston won two cups by finding a gem of a central playmaker NORTH of the border - DeRo - whose parents are south american

before that LAG won 2 cups in 4 years - nagamura was in the middle in 05 and the salvadoran playmaker mauricio cienfuegos in 02

argentine christian gomez was the playmaker for 04 DC title run

the hub for SJs cup winning teams in 03 and 01? the unlikely Dane ronnie ekelund. not of spanish decent but did begin his professional career in the barcelona system

in 2000 the yugoslavian born 37 year old preki led KC

polish international peter nowak was the engine behind chicagos early success, including a cup in 98

which brings us to THE ultimate foreign signing in the history of MLS - marco "el diablo" etcheverry... signed for DC at 25 - just entering the peak of his footballing power and with class that has otherwise been reserved for fading stars such as valderrama and henry (great MLS players but past prime). etcheverry was an MLS best 11 in each of his first 4 seasons and DC reached MLS cup all 4 years, winning 3. wow

chris_thebassplayer
San Jose
Post #14
Friday December 5, 2014 3:27am

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 1,197
Ekelund was badass, i don't think I ever saw him lose possession of a ball in midfield...unbelievable ball control.

Regarding the NYRB, Petke is fine, I think the point he's trying to make is that they are not going after over priced "names" anymore...and all the baggage that goes with it. He doesn't want any distractions, and as good as Henry was when he wanted to give full effort, Petke had to appease him. It just sounds like he wants to bring in young talented players that will work hard for him and each other...build healthy team chemistry. NYRB used to be dysfunctional in all facets, they would especially whiff on DP player selection. Petke will bring in younger and cheaper, but still quality DPs and nurture and utilitize NYRB's solid youth system...which has never been done in NY before.

EKneezy
Atlanta
Post #15
Friday December 5, 2014 7:20am

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 2,894
Who are the young players that will lead them in the future? Miazga, Castano,..... who else? Connor Lade is supremely overrated. My guess is the Galaxy rout like Rain stated but they have tried that and failed for the most part. NYCFC will bully them if they dont step up their game in the future.


The young soccer careers of Rubio Rubin and Brady Scott are headed in completely opposite directions.
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