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dunlopp9987
Post #106
Tuesday July 29, 2014 5:06am

Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts: 2,634
Alright, so English teams are done playing American teams in friendlies. I believe tonight's match between the Richmond Kickers and Palace was the last one. First I'm going to post the results, then explain myself:

Draw (Seattle vs Spurs)
Win (Minnesota United FC over Swansea)
Loss (West Brom over Sacramento)
Loss (Spurs over Toronto)
Draw (Columbus vs Palace)
Loss (Villa over Dallas)
Loss (City over SKC)
Loss (United over LA)
Loss (Palace over Philadelphia)
Loss (West Brom over Sacramento)
Win (New York over Arsenal)
Loss (Fulham over DC United)
Loss (Spurs over Chicago)
Loss (Villa over Houston)
Loss (Atleti over San Jose)
Loss (Palace over Richmond)

That's a record of 2-12-2. WOOPS.

Now. I realize some of these were English teams playing teams in the NASL. But in one of those games, the NASL team (my Minnesota United FC) beat the English team. You take that game away, and MLS beat an English side once.

You may come at me with "please, these are meaningless friendlies. The English sides are in pre-season form and American sides are in the middle of their seasons and are not concerned with these results." I. CALL. BULLSHIT.

Firstly, these American teams care about these games. They're playing teams from one of the best leagues in the world (sans Fulham). You don't think they want to beat a Premier League team?? Bullshit.

Secondly, if these results were flipped, and the American sides had gone 12-2-2, people would be praising how well we did and how this is a sign of progress in American soccer. Don't say that's not the case, we all know it is.

Lastly, if anything, American sides should have been MORE ready for these matches. They're in mid-season form! The English sides should've been the ones looking inferior.

People can try and talk down how meaningful these friendlies were, but it doesn't change the fact that we were spanked by sides from England. We've got a long, long way to go before we can be considered a powerful league.
COYB!!
2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #107
Tuesday July 29, 2014 5:21am

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 9,838
Then don't watch MLS.

Jzaval01
Post #108
Tuesday July 29, 2014 5:22am

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 3,315
When we start winning our regions champions league then we can start saying it has progressed significantly. At the moment there still is progression but it isnt the one we dream of yet.

Progress chart in 3 easy steps:
1st - Win Concacaf Champions League more often then not and be the regions best league. Something Mexico still has.
After that
2nd - Get spots into Copa Lib. Challenge be competitive and eventually win the cup until we become the best League in the Americas.
3rd - Have players come in before their prime, have MLS be the to go league over Europe or on par with Europe. If even possible prob will never happen but get spots for UEFA champions league even if we enter into Round 1 since we arent UEFA lol.

Crazy but the only way we will get players to come here before or in their prime if is there is Champions League (UEFA) or w.e the competition shapes into. The highest level in club soccer for now UEFA CL.
Unless MLS and Copa Lib can mix and rival UEFA CL.
But getting ahead of myself. First dominate region.

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #109
Tuesday July 29, 2014 5:24am

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 9,838
MLS teams aren't in Copa Libertadores, and it's unlikely to happen anytime soon.

Jzaval01
Post #110
Tuesday July 29, 2014 5:31am

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 3,315
Original post from 2tone

MLS teams aren't in Copa Libertadores, and it's unlikely to happen anytime soon.


I know they arent and we shouldnt be until we can win Concacaf CL on a consistent basis. Saying that, you know how much Copa Lib would benefit if MLS sides were good enough to compete? How many MLS fans and American fans actually pay attention to Copa Lib with no MLS teams vs How many fans would pay attention to that tournament if MLS was involved. ESPN would so be all over those rights.

dunlopp9987
Post #111
Tuesday July 29, 2014 5:59am

Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts: 2,634
Original post from 2tone

Then don't watch MLS.


Ah, see here's where you're confused. I do watch MLS. Watched it tonight. Because I want it to grow and succeed. My reasoning for the post above was that I'm increasingly frustrated by people who seem to think the league is better than it is. It's like some blind belief that MLS is a high-quality league. It's not, not yet at least. It absolutely has the potential to get there, but it's just ridiculous seeing some of the posts on here about the quality of the league.
COYB!!
admsghs27
Post #112
Tuesday July 29, 2014 6:44am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 6,060
All these games are friendlies and meaningful. Players themselves don't really take it seriously. Is more about the $$$. I believe a couple years back mls had a winning record vs English teams yet no one talked about it. Dunlopp is a hater like I said before, he should start a mls hatefest thread see how many people like it. He shouldn't watch mls or us soccer he has no knowledge and just talks out of his ass.

dunlopp9987
Post #113
Tuesday July 29, 2014 6:47am

Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts: 2,634
Original post from admsghs27

All these games are friendlies and meaningful. Players themselves don't really take it seriously. Is more about the $$$. I believe a couple years back mls had a winning record vs English teams yet no one talked about it. Dunlopp is a hater like I said before, he should start a mls hatefest thread see how many people like it. He shouldn't watch mls or us soccer he has no knowledge and just talks out of his ass.


Hey thanks for agreeing with me. They ARE meaningful, aren't they.

Isn't it great when we get along??
COYB!!
admsghs27
Post #114
Tuesday July 29, 2014 8:35am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 6,060
Their not important or meaningful. I could Care less if an mls team beats a top epl team 5-0 or loses 5-0. I remember chivas beat Barcelona like 4-0 a while back that doesn't mean their better or over la liga. You probably care about those games more than the real ones.

MSantoine
Post #115
Tuesday July 29, 2014 2:36pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,723
Original post from dunlopp9987

Alright, so English teams are done playing American teams in friendlies. I believe tonight's match between the Richmond Kickers and Palace was the last one. First I'm going to post the results, then explain myself:

Draw (Seattle vs Spurs)
Win (Minnesota United FC over Swansea)
Loss (West Brom over Sacramento)
Loss (Spurs over Toronto)
Draw (Columbus vs Palace)
Loss (Villa over Dallas)
Loss (City over SKC)
Loss (United over LA)
Loss (Palace over Philadelphia)
Loss (West Brom over Sacramento)
Win (New York over Arsenal)
Loss (Fulham over DC United)
Loss (Spurs over Chicago)
Loss (Villa over Houston)
Loss (Atleti over San Jose)
Loss (Palace over Richmond)

That's a record of 2-12-2. WOOPS.

Now. I realize some of these were English teams playing teams in the NASL. But in one of those games, the NASL team (my Minnesota United FC) beat the English team. You take that game away, and MLS beat an English side once.

You may come at me with "please, these are meaningless friendlies. The English sides are in pre-season form and American sides are in the middle of their seasons and are not concerned with these results." I. CALL. BULLSHIT.

Firstly, these American teams care about these games. They're playing teams from one of the best leagues in the world (sans Fulham). You don't think they want to beat a Premier League team?? Bullshit.

Secondly, if these results were flipped, and the American sides had gone 12-2-2, people would be praising how well we did and how this is a sign of progress in American soccer. Don't say that's not the case, we all know it is.

Lastly, if anything, American sides should have been MORE ready for these matches. They're in mid-season form! The English sides should've been the ones looking inferior.

People can try and talk down how meaningful these friendlies were, but it doesn't change the fact that we were spanked by sides from England. We've got a long, long way to go before we can be considered a powerful league.


One HUGE factor you are leaving out is that the final score doesnt tell the whole story, especially in friendlies. How many of these games were the MLS team winning, tied, or within a goal before emptying their bench. The only thing these friendlies told me was that EPL teams are deeper than MLS teams and there bench players are head and shoulders above our bench players.

Guess what. I knew that already.

Kamphgruppe
Michigan
Post #116
Tuesday July 29, 2014 4:30pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 653
Original post from dunlopp9987

Alright, so English teams are done playing American teams in friendlies. I believe tonight's match between the Richmond Kickers and Palace was the last one. First I'm going to post the results, then explain myself:

Draw (Seattle vs Spurs)
Win (Minnesota United FC over Swansea)
Loss (West Brom over Sacramento)
Loss (Spurs over Toronto)
Draw (Columbus vs Palace)
Loss (Villa over Dallas)
Loss (City over SKC)
Loss (United over LA)
Loss (Palace over Philadelphia)
Loss (West Brom over Sacramento)
Win (New York over Arsenal)
Loss (Fulham over DC United)
Loss (Spurs over Chicago)
Loss (Villa over Houston)
Loss (Atleti over San Jose)
Loss (Palace over Richmond)

That's a record of 2-12-2. WOOPS.

Now. I realize some of these were English teams playing teams in the NASL. But in one of those games, the NASL team (my Minnesota United FC) beat the English team. You take that game away, and MLS beat an English side once.

You may come at me with "please, these are meaningless friendlies. The English sides are in pre-season form and American sides are in the middle of their seasons and are not concerned with these results." I. CALL. BULLSHIT.

Firstly, these American teams care about these games. They're playing teams from one of the best leagues in the world (sans Fulham). You don't think they want to beat a Premier League team?? Bullshit.

Secondly, if these results were flipped, and the American sides had gone 12-2-2, people would be praising how well we did and how this is a sign of progress in American soccer. Don't say that's not the case, we all know it is.

Lastly, if anything, American sides should have been MORE ready for these matches. They're in mid-season form! The English sides should've been the ones looking inferior.

People can try and talk down how meaningful these friendlies were, but it doesn't change the fact that we were spanked by sides from England. We've got a long, long way to go before we can be considered a powerful league.


I was only able to catch a couple of these but the sides I watched only fielded a few of their starters and most played a half tops. Yes the MLS guys want to win but unless your trying to prove something to your coach your not risking injury by playing all out.

People often put too much stock in friendlies win or lose. If your using these friendlies as proof that MLS is a bad league then your just as ignorant as the people who would praise our progress if we won.

recycledhumans
DFWTX
Post #117
Tuesday July 29, 2014 4:37pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,467
The friendlies weren't about showing the skill/quality of the league, it was about trying to get more people watching. The EPL is the most watched league in the world, so drawing crowds in the middle of the season and international viewership was the goal.

Tiger
Post #118
Tuesday July 29, 2014 4:43pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 94
Plus one to Kamphgruppe.

Friendlies, or exhibitions, however they are termed, are in this MLS context used by the European clubs as a way to expand their brand and footprint into the US. As such they are mostly for the fans. They are also utilized by the European clubs as a preseason training and conditioning exercise, as well as a proving ground for players seeking to impress managers of their current and/or future prospective squads.

Club versus club, and league versus league evaluations can really only be accurately evaluated in meaningful competitions where something real is at stake.

Rey Regicide
Post #119
Tuesday July 29, 2014 5:30pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 2,001
I don't see anywhere that the MLS is a bad league. There have been enough posts on this site that rated MLS teams on par with mid level to lower level EPL team. That is what's being called into question. And it's that reality that will continue when we select our national team for meaningful competition. Yea, it's great Luis Gil has been playing for Real Salt Lake for the past 4 years, but if Gyau gets an ounce of playing time for Borussia Dortmund, or Green for Bayern, they're leap frogging him.

I love the MLS, I'm going to be pulling for the all star team (nats plus henry, martins and donovan) to beat Bayern, even though I'll be pulling for Green too. The league just isn't anywhere near the talent level of the top 3 leagues, but due to the nature of the sport in the world, that's not a fatal indictment.

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #120
Tuesday July 29, 2014 5:47pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 9,838
Original post from Rey Regicide

I don't see anywhere that the MLS is a bad league. There have been enough posts on this site that rated MLS teams on par with mid level to lower level EPL team. That is what's being called into question. And it's that reality that will continue when we select our national team for meaningful competition. Yea, it's great Luis Gil has been playing for Real Salt Lake for the past 4 years, but if Gyau gets an ounce of playing time for Borussia Dortmund, or Green for Bayern, they're leap frogging him.

I love the MLS, I'm going to be pulling for the all star team (nats plus henry, martins and donovan) to beat Bayern, even though I'll be pulling for Green too. The league just isn't anywhere near the talent level of the top 3 leagues, but due to the nature of the sport in the world, that's not a fatal indictment.


Why would anyone try to justify win or lose MLS's quality in these summer friendly games? The reality is that we will never be able to see these teams really compete against each other in a competitive season. So there is really zero empirical proof to suggest that MLS could or couldn't compete in the EPL, Bundesliga, Serie A, or La liga.

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