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Jglaube
California
Post #1
Friday July 18, 2014 5:24pm

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 77
The amount of love some people have for the MLS on this site is fine but I am sick of people saying the younger talent and even people like Matt Besler should stay in the MLS. Yes the MLS is improving but it is still not even in the Top 15 leagues in the world IMO. We need our young talent starting overseas and challenging for the Champions League. I'm sorry, Connor Casey and a 32 year old David Villa is not a "drastically" improving league. I would rather see our defenders going up against strong European opposition.

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #2
Friday July 18, 2014 5:35pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 9,748
Original post from Jglaube

The amount of love some people have for the MLS on this site is fine but I am sick of people saying the younger talent and even people like Matt Besler should stay in the MLS. Yes the MLS is improving but it is still not even in the Top 15 leagues in the world IMO. We need our young talent starting overseas and challenging for the Champions League. I'm sorry, Connor Casey and a 32 year old David Villa is not a "drastically" improving league. I would rather see our defenders going up against strong European opposition.


To each their own opinion bud.

Matt Besler should stay in MLS. His choices are crap teams Fulham and Sunderland. He should definitely stay at SKC.

Every player is different. What some fans "want" is irrelevant to what the player wants to do with his career.

db707
Post #3
Friday July 18, 2014 5:37pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 670
Original post from Jglaube

The amount of love some people have for the MLS on this site is fine but I am sick of people saying the younger talent and even people like Matt Besler should stay in the MLS. Yes the MLS is improving but it is still not even in the Top 15 leagues in the world IMO. We need our young talent starting overseas and challenging for the Champions League. I'm sorry, Connor Casey and a 32 year old David Villa is not a "drastically" improving league. I would rather see our defenders going up against strong European opposition.


Would you mind naming those 15 better leagues?

Mojofc
Post #4
Friday July 18, 2014 5:39pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 966
MLS will grow by investing in youth structure.

MLS will also grow by selling tickets, aka bringing in David Villa.

One in the same as long as they still invest in youth squads.

After saying that, I rarely watch MLS, no relegation crushes the excitement for me. Also the fact there are no teams near me within 5 hours. Waiting for 2017 (Atl), will continue watching the MLS all star game and a few others where American prospects play.
Rain, rain, go away Come again another day - USMNT, MUFC
Jglaube
California
Post #5
Friday July 18, 2014 5:57pm

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 77
Original post from db707

Would you mind naming those 15 better leagues?


This is just the UEFA teams, I believe the first 13 are better than the MLS not counting Brazil, Argentina, Mexico (at the moment).
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_coefficient

MSantoine
Post #6
Friday July 18, 2014 6:08pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,723
Original post from Jglaube

This is just the UEFA teams, I believe the first 13 are better than the MLS not counting Brazil, Argentina, Mexico (at the moment).
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_coefficient


I dont think you'd find many people that would pick the Ukranian League over MLS. Really you have the big 6 leagues, Netherlands and Russia that are pretty clearly upgrades from MLS. If you throw Mexico, Argentina, and Brazil that still puts MLS at 12th, and gaining on Mexico, Argentina, Russia, and Netherlands very quickly.

tylercocinas
Post #7
Friday July 18, 2014 6:12pm

Joined Aug 2012
Total Posts: 1,136
Original post from Jglaube

The amount of love some people have for the MLS on this site is fine but I am sick of people saying the younger talent and even people like Matt Besler should stay in the MLS. Yes the MLS is improving but it is still not even in the Top 15 leagues in the world IMO. We need our young talent starting overseas and challenging for the Champions League. I'm sorry, Connor Casey and a 32 year old David Villa is not a "drastically" improving league. I would rather see our defenders going up against strong European opposition.


Challenging for Champions League? We've had players in Europe for years and how many have played in the Champions League? Kljestan, Diskerud, Parkhurst, etc. What do they have in common? They play for mid-European tier clubs whose only advantage over MLS is that if you win your league (which is perhaps a slight increase in terms of the level of competition from MLS) you get a berth in the qualifying rounds of UCL. Forgive me for being unenthusiastic. No American players have the opportunity to play for clubs in the bigger leagues with multiple automatic berths, for a plethora of reasons. If we send players to Europe it is to either play for a top club in a mid-tier league, or to play at a mid-tier club in a top league. That's the reality of the situation. Before this Cup, aside from Landon Donovan we haven't had a large contingent of players stay in MLS and receive opportunities to contribute significantly in a World Cup for a few years now. That Besler, Zusi, Gonzalez, etc. didn't look out of place and were major contributors in different games should show that if a player happens to choose to stay in MLS long term over going abroad he's not committing career suicide. All that being said, you don't have to worry about that becoming a trend. Most athletes desire the opportunity to test themselves at the highest level they can possibly reach so I think we'll continue to send players abroad as we normally do.

MSantoine
Post #8
Friday July 18, 2014 6:13pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,723
There's only one thing that makes leagues better.

$$$$$$$

Its all about tv and sponsership deals. MLS needs to do whatever it can to increase those. They need to develop the academies so teams can fill out their lineups with decent 18-21 year olds on the cheap so they can afford a couple of name attractions. That was essentially the German model a decade ago. The bundesliga teams leaned heavily on U21 German guys to fill the rosters instead of doing the EPL method of having your last 5 guys be middling, expensive veterans. Thats the model MLS needs to follow. Unfortunately the academies aren't at the level where they can churn out 5-6 MLS caliber players every 2-3 years for every team.

richieJkulesaNY
Post #9
Friday July 18, 2014 6:26pm

Joined Jun 2012
Total Posts: 1,016
It doesnt matter what the ranking of the league is, what matters is the product on the field. That product is poor. There's no consequence in this league and it does have an effect. This league needs pro/rel like never before.

I watched the Union/RBNY game the other night. It looked like a pickup game.

I'm all for people supporting MLS because, well, somebody has to, but please don't pretend like its an acceptable product. You should be demanding more.

How about this gem from Earnie Stewart, "I'm not Jozy, but I wouldn't go back to MLS right now [if I were in his shoes]. Because I think he's a very good player."

Thats from this article: http://www.espnfc.com/united-states/story/195...

Jglaube
California
Post #10
Friday July 18, 2014 6:35pm

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 77
Original post from richieJkulesaNY

It doesnt matter what the ranking of the league is, what matters is the product on the field. That product is poor. There's no consequence in this league and it does have an effect. This league needs pro/rel like never before.

I watched the Union/RBNY game the other night. It looked like a pickup game.

I'm all for people supporting MLS because, well, somebody has to, but please don't pretend like its an acceptable product. You should be demanding more.

How about this gem from Earnie Stewart, "I'm not Jozy, but I wouldn't go back to MLS right now [if I were in his shoes]. Because I think he's a very good player."

Thats from this article: http://www.espnfc.com/united-states/story/195...


Couldn't agree the product isn't poor but not good ill say that.

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #11
Friday July 18, 2014 7:16pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 9,748
Pro/Rel is such an old and exhausting debate. A debate that really has no tangible evidence of making any league better. What makes teams/leagues better is money, not pro/rel.

Somehow pro/rel supports seem to think it will magically make MLS a better league immediately. It won't. Pro/Rel creates a disparity of a few top clubs and everyone else. It is the root problem with teams gong bankrupt.

To be honest I only watch European games if an American player is involved. I don't watch because of Pro/Rel.

platter
Jacksonville, FL
Post #12
Friday July 18, 2014 7:28pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 97
To those saying how awful the MLS product is, I'd say watch some tape of MLS 10 years ago. The current version is a huge leap in the right direction.....

Of course, it needs to improve further. Adding $$ would help. Adding it to the right areas would help more, specifically development. Development will add depth, and skill to the league, I'd argue the two aspects most lacking. Getting David Villa, or Kaka, or Robinho will make the league more attractive, but the product won't improve until the 11th man on the field is quality.

Agree with 2tone, Pro/Reg isn't going to be implemented anytime soon, and won't add anything significant to the quality on the pitch. The league needs to be fully matured before Pro/Reg is a viable option, probably 10 years out still at least.

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #13
Friday July 18, 2014 7:30pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 9,748
I think fans that support MLS understand it still isn't some Elite league. I think they understand that the play on the field needs to get better. I don't think any fan is pretending that it's an acceptable product. But it's also not a bad product, and to somehow think Pro/Rel will resolve that makes me laugh.

Mojofc
Post #14
Friday July 18, 2014 7:55pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 966
Original post from 2tone

Pro/Rel is such an old and exhausting debate. A debate that really has no tangible evidence of making any league better. What makes teams/leagues better is money, not pro/rel.

Somehow pro/rel supports seem to think it will magically make MLS a better league immediately. It won't. Pro/Rel creates a disparity of a few top clubs and everyone else. It is the root problem with teams gong bankrupt.

To be honest I only watch European games if an American player is involved. I don't watch because of Pro/Rel.


Pro/Rel: Every single game is massively important. Creates rivalries that dig deeper than simply who wins. .500 teams don't have a chance of winning the league.

MLS: Most games don't matter all that much. Rivalry wins mean little. Average teams have an equal shot of being the champion once post-season begins.

What happens in 30 years when soccer is massive in this country, do we have 50 MLS teams over 4 divisions that all meat in the playoffs? Soccer has the ability to be in every town one day, MLS doesn't offer that potential.

Just a simple reasoning for my distaste for playoff soccer.
Rain, rain, go away Come again another day - USMNT, MUFC
dunlopp9987
Post #15
Friday July 18, 2014 8:00pm

Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts: 2,629
Original post from 2tone

I think fans that support MLS understand it still isn't some Elite league. I think they understand that the play on the field needs to get better. I don't think any fan is pretending that it's an acceptable product. But it's also not a bad product, and to somehow think Pro/Rel will resolve that makes me laugh.


I do have to call bullshit on that one. I know of plenty of MLS fans (including some on here) who think MLS is a top 8 league in the world right now. I've seen people on this site too often claim that MLS is better than the Eredivisie, Liga MX, Russian PL, etc. Which we all know is complete and utter horse shit. Whenever I try and watch MLS, I'd say maybe 1 in 5 matches I watch I consider to be "good" football. The rest is just embarrassing defending, atrocious ball control/retention, and a lack of skill that makes it difficult to watch fairly often.

I don't enjoy knocking down MLS. I absolutely want MLS to succeed, because I want this sport to succeed in this country. And I do still watch as much MLS as I can. But the product on the pitch is just not good.
COYB!!
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