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tylercocinas
Post #31
Sunday July 20, 2014 2:34am

Joined Aug 2012
Total Posts: 756
Original post from admsghs27

For Mls is Good but for his Mnt future it looks iffy.


I don't get this. He proved that he was capable of holding his own against top international squads. Is he going to get worse by staying in the MLS? The starting left CB position is literally his to lose.

skangles
DC
Post #32
Sunday July 20, 2014 2:58am

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,974
Any idea how much the Besler and Zusi deals are worth per season?

Omar's DP contract is $1.1m a season, I'd have to think Besler's is in that range. He was on a stupid deal at $200k a season before this announcement. He's clearly the best central Defender in the MLS and it was a smart move by SKC to keep him in town.

Fraser31
Charleston, South Carolina
Post #33
Sunday July 20, 2014 5:12am

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 996
I don't really think him staying or going really matters at this point. Like most have said, at 27 he's not going to drastically improve. He likes SKC and he's done amazing things in spite of not having the Top 4 league experience. I don't think you guys give the MLS enough credit. Also, him staying there just helps even more for what we are trying to achieve: a solid domestic league. A lot can happen in four years. It's very likely that Brooks or another young gun could snatch up his starting spot, or at least challenge him for it, but I think that would happen regardless of his league. He'll play a lot, he's happy, and he's helping the league. I say it's a win-win no matter how you look at it.

MSantoine
Post #34
Sunday July 20, 2014 11:49am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 2,186
Original post from tylercocinas

I don't get this. He proved that he was capable of holding his own against top international squads. Is he going to get worse by staying in the MLS? The starting left CB position is literally his to lose.


Unfortunately you can't think of it that way. It seems, right it wrong, that currently at least Juergen sees both besler and brooks as a lcb. If brooks becomes/stays as the first team option for hertha, and leads hertha to a decent season, besler is now the backup. I don't think many coaches would pick an mls guy over a 21 year old bundesliga starter.

EKneezy
Post #35
Sunday July 20, 2014 2:00pm

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 1,853
Yeah the notion that he'll decline because of him staying is silly. Hes going to get pushed for his spot because the guy behind him(hopefully Brooks) is raising their game.

snipes87
Cleveland, Ohio
Post #36
Sunday July 20, 2014 5:18pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 274
Original post from EKneezy

Yeah the notion that he'll decline because of him staying is silly. Hes going to get pushed for his spot because the guy behind him(hopefully Brooks) is raising their game.


Except Brooks is still improving and playing against Lewandowski, Robben, Reus, Farfan, Son and the list goes on. Besler is playing against Mike Magee and Jack Mcinerney. Besler's growth is done. Which is not a bad thing. He's an excellent player. But he's no longer a starter in 2018. There will be too many other/better options playing in Euroland.
If you don't love it, leave it, USA #1
blaise213
San Francisco CA
Post #37
Sunday July 20, 2014 5:29pm

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 1,347
My same argument >>>> MLS needs to allow USMNT players DP contracts without the DP tag

dunlopp9987
Post #38
Sunday July 20, 2014 5:45pm

Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts: 1,211
Original post from blaise213

My same argument >>>> MLS needs to allow USMNT players DP contracts without the DP tag


Agreed. Those should be for foreign players brought in.
COYB!!
tjknowsall
Post #39
Sunday July 20, 2014 5:55pm

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 287
look im thinking besler will be a backup in 2018 regardless of his move. But there is nothing bad about that.... 2 world cups, and improving the mls as he goes.

USAGunner
West Palm Beach
Post #40
Monday July 21, 2014 4:41pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 208
The only time someone needs to leave the MLS is for these places:
(Caveat, only if they are a full-time starter).

A team that is consistently in the Premier League, La Liga, Bundesliga or Serie A:
EPL - Tottenham, Everton, Aston Villa, Newcastle, West Ham, Southampton, Sunderland, West Brom, & Stoke City

La Liga - Athletico Bilbao, Valencia, Espanyol, Sevilla, Real Sociedad, Celta de Vigo, & Deportivo La Coruna

Bundesliga - Hamburger SV, Werder Bremen, Stuttgart, Monchengladbach, Schalke 04, Frankfurt, Leverkusen, Hannover 96

Serie A - Roma, Fiorentina, Lazio, Torino, Napoli, Sampdoria, Atalanta, Genoa, Udinese, Cagliari

A team that is consistently at the top of the table (competing for Europa league spots) in Ligue 1, Portugal, Eredivisie, & Super Lig (Turkey).

Ligue 1 - Marseille, Monaco, Lille, St. Etienne, Lyon

Portugal - Sporting CP, Estoril, Braga, Nacional, Maritimo

Eredivisie - Feyenoord, Twente, PSV, Heerenveen, Vitesse, AZ

Turkey - Besiktas, Fenerbache, Galatasaray, Bursaspor, Trabzonspor

Other teams in other Euro leagues that dominate their division and are always in the Champions league:
Shaktar Donetsk, CSKA Moscow, Anderlecht, Olympiacos, Basel, Zenit St Petersburg, Standard Liege, Panathiakos, Copenhagen, Dynamo Kyiv, Spartak Moscow, Celtic.

In addition if these teams offer a part time starter role/full time part of the regular squad (regular sub) then you they should go:
Chelsea, Manchester United, Arsenal, Liverpool, Manchester City, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Athletico Madrid, Bayern Munich, Borussia Dortmund, Juventus, AC Milan, Internazionale, PSG, Benfica, Porto, & Ajax.

Other than that, unless another team is offering you a lot of money and to be THE man on the team (where team is built around you), then it's not really worth it.

Essentially EPL, La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga, and probably Ligue 1 competition is far superior that if you can get on as a full time starter for a team that is consistently in those leagues, then you should jump the ocean. Eredivisie, Portugal, Turkey, and Probably Russia are better, but not so much better that you go for a team that isn't going to offer European (IE better competition). Other than that you don't go unless the team offers Champions league games.

That should be the GENERAL rule.

A caveat to that is that any team you go to, should be one that suits your abilities and is going to use you so that your abilities are maxed out, and have players surrounding you that also utilize your abilities.

IE a forward that plays up top as a holding midfielder and is reliant on service, should not go to a team without other attacking options/service.

The style of a league should also go into the account. If you are a guy that thrives on playing defense and going on the counter, then the Eredivisie probably isn't for you.

Also there area always exceptions, but they should stay exceptions and not the rule. For instance you are a young player that has a LOT of room to improve and you find a team that consistently grooms players, makes them better, and puts them on to bigger clubs (IE a stepping stone), then you should probably go.
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MSantoine
Post #41
Monday July 21, 2014 7:00pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 2,186
Original post from USAGunner

The only time someone needs to leave the MLS is for these places:
(Caveat, only if they are a full-time starter).

A team that is consistently in the Premier League, La Liga, Bundesliga or Serie A:
EPL - Tottenham, Everton, Aston Villa, Newcastle, West Ham, Southampton, Sunderland, West Brom, & Stoke City

La Liga - Athletico Bilbao, Valencia, Espanyol, Sevilla, Real Sociedad, Celta de Vigo, & Deportivo La Coruna

Bundesliga - Hamburger SV, Werder Bremen, Stuttgart, Monchengladbach, Schalke 04, Frankfurt, Leverkusen, Hannover 96

Serie A - Roma, Fiorentina, Lazio, Torino, Napoli, Sampdoria, Atalanta, Genoa, Udinese, Cagliari

A team that is consistently at the top of the table (competing for Europa league spots) in Ligue 1, Portugal, Eredivisie, & Super Lig (Turkey).

Ligue 1 - Marseille, Monaco, Lille, St. Etienne, Lyon

Portugal - Sporting CP, Estoril, Braga, Nacional, Maritimo

Eredivisie - Feyenoord, Twente, PSV, Heerenveen, Vitesse, AZ

Turkey - Besiktas, Fenerbache, Galatasaray, Bursaspor, Trabzonspor

Other teams in other Euro leagues that dominate their division and are always in the Champions league:
Shaktar Donetsk, CSKA Moscow, Anderlecht, Olympiacos, Basel, Zenit St Petersburg, Standard Liege, Panathiakos, Copenhagen, Dynamo Kyiv, Spartak Moscow, Celtic.

In addition if these teams offer a part time starter role/full time part of the regular squad (regular sub) then you they should go:
Chelsea, Manchester United, Arsenal, Liverpool, Manchester City, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Athletico Madrid, Bayern Munich, Borussia Dortmund, Juventus, AC Milan, Internazionale, PSG, Benfica, Porto, & Ajax.

Other than that, unless another team is offering you a lot of money and to be THE man on the team (where team is built around you), then it's not really worth it.

Essentially EPL, La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga, and probably Ligue 1 competition is far superior that if you can get on as a full time starter for a team that is consistently in those leagues, then you should jump the ocean. Eredivisie, Portugal, Turkey, and Probably Russia are better, but not so much better that you go for a team that isn't going to offer European (IE better competition). Other than that you don't go unless the team offers Champions league games.

That should be the GENERAL rule.

A caveat to that is that any team you go to, should be one that suits your abilities and is going to use you so that your abilities are maxed out, and have players surrounding you that also utilize your abilities.

IE a forward that plays up top as a holding midfielder and is reliant on service, should not go to a team without other attacking options/service.

The style of a league should also go into the account. If you are a guy that thrives on playing defense and going on the counter, then the Eredivisie probably isn't for you.

Also there area always exceptions, but they should stay exceptions and not the rule. For instance you are a young player that has a LOT of room to improve and you find a team that consistently grooms players, makes them better, and puts them on to bigger clubs (IE a stepping stone), then you should probably go.


I like the time and effort that it took to come up with this list but I have to disagree with some of the premises. Look at when Clint went to Fulham and Holden went to Bolton. They were bottom of the barrel EPL teams and both players got accolades for their work. Bradley went to a stable EPL and stable Bundesliga teams and they didnt work out.

I think what is key in this day and age is for players to do there homework. Before transferring to a team the player and/or his agent needs to access certain things like who's his competition. If a player transfers over and there's already an international caliber guy to compete with maybe its best to look at other options.Or if there's some 19 year old whiz kid and you know the team is going to want to turn it over to him soon maybe don't go. Im not saying you should never go and push yourself but players need to be smart and put themselves in a position to succeed and not fail.

recycledhumans
DFWTX
Post #42
Monday July 21, 2014 7:35pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,153
Original post from MSantoine

I like the time and effort that it took to come up with this list but I have to disagree with some of the premises. Look at when Clint went to Fulham and Holden went to Bolton. They were bottom of the barrel EPL teams and both players got accolades for their work. Bradley went to a stable EPL and stable Bundesliga teams and they didnt work out.

I think what is key in this day and age is for players to do there homework. Before transferring to a team the player and/or his agent needs to access certain things like who's his competition. If a player transfers over and there's already an international caliber guy to compete with maybe its best to look at other options.Or if there's some 19 year old whiz kid and you know the team is going to want to turn it over to him soon maybe don't go. Im not saying you should never go and push yourself but players need to be smart and put themselves in a position to succeed and not fail.


Good point, and I think a lot of that has to do with the agents. If an agent was more concerned with the player's development than getting their 10%, this is the kind of research that they should be doing on the player's behalf.

USAGunner
West Palm Beach
Post #43
Monday July 21, 2014 7:46pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 208
Original post from MSantoine

I like the time and effort that it took to come up with this list but I have to disagree with some of the premises. Look at when Clint went to Fulham and Holden went to Bolton. They were bottom of the barrel EPL teams and both players got accolades for their work. Bradley went to a stable EPL and stable Bundesliga teams and they didnt work out.

I think what is key in this day and age is for players to do there homework. Before transferring to a team the player and/or his agent needs to access certain things like who's his competition. If a player transfers over and there's already an international caliber guy to compete with maybe its best to look at other options.Or if there's some 19 year old whiz kid and you know the team is going to want to turn it over to him soon maybe don't go. Im not saying you should never go and push yourself but players need to be smart and put themselves in a position to succeed and not fail.


Those are the things I was getting at with saying:
There are always exceptions
they shouldn't go unless they know they are getting full-time minutes
don't go if your style doesn't fit the team.

Also Up until this past year I would have put Fulham on this list, but since this is a list mainly about where guys should go THIS year, I can't put Fulham on that list being in the Championship.
www.westpalmbeachchurchofchrist.com
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