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db707
Post #16
Tuesday July 15, 2014 3:01pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 434
Original post from MSantoine

Just so no one thinks I'm talking out of my ass I was able to find the article from the time they were discussing it.

http://www.sbnation.com/soccer/2011/3/3/20279...


Thanks for digging that up. That's essentially the way I see it in my mind, we would start in 2016 in one of 4 groups of 4, top 2 from each group qualify to play in 2017 in groups of 4, group winners qualify, second place teams play off for the 3rd spot in the October window, loser of that playoff goes to an inter-regional playoff in November 2017. This is assuming we stay steady at 3.5 places, though if we go to 4 then second place teams would just automatically qualify. I grant the argument that we wouldn't play Mexico in qualifiers and that isn't ideal, but we could still schedule them in friendlies. Better yet, maybe agree between MLS and LigaMx at least to have a USA v Mexico match series each year on set dates and have a trophy at stake. Like the old Bledisloe Cup in Australia-New Zealand rugby. If it's in the summer we might even be able to include our Europe-based players.

MSantoine
Post #17
Tuesday July 15, 2014 4:57pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,723
Original post from db707

Thanks for digging that up. That's essentially the way I see it in my mind, we would start in 2016 in one of 4 groups of 4, top 2 from each group qualify to play in 2017 in groups of 4, group winners qualify, second place teams play off for the 3rd spot in the October window, loser of that playoff goes to an inter-regional playoff in November 2017. This is assuming we stay steady at 3.5 places, though if we go to 4 then second place teams would just automatically qualify. I grant the argument that we wouldn't play Mexico in qualifiers and that isn't ideal, but we could still schedule them in friendlies. Better yet, maybe agree between MLS and LigaMx at least to have a USA v Mexico match series each year on set dates and have a trophy at stake. Like the old Bledisloe Cup in Australia-New Zealand rugby. If it's in the summer we might even be able to include our Europe-based players.


I only have two real concerns if they rekindle this qualifying process ( I think a major reason to change was the guarenteed 4th slot so who knows if its realistic)

US Soccer essentially trades out Mexico for Trinidad and Tobago. Its already hard enough to stake claim on the global scale. Every 4 years we'd essentiall have 4-5 games only against top 75 countries that counted (2 vs either CR or Honduras in WCQ and 2-3 in the 2 gold cups) as opposed to the 10-12 we have now.

2nd CONCACAF as a hole would start to have undeserving teams sneak in. Look at Africa and Asia. There are always a crappy team (North Korea, Cameroon) that gets in and gets embarrassed while a decent team stays home.

I'd actually prefer they go the other way. Be more aggressive with knocking out the minnows and have 1 final round instead of a prelim round then the hex. Have a 8-10 team final round that mirrors CONMEBOL. Will be interesting to see if anything changes.

It looks like from what I've read Asia is alreadly changing their qualifying to have less rounds and bigger groups.

db707
Post #18
Tuesday July 15, 2014 5:18pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 434
Original post from MSantoine

I only have two real concerns if they rekindle this qualifying process ( I think a major reason to change was the guarenteed 4th slot so who knows if its realistic)

US Soccer essentially trades out Mexico for Trinidad and Tobago. Its already hard enough to stake claim on the global scale. Every 4 years we'd essentiall have 4-5 games only against top 75 countries that counted (2 vs either CR or Honduras in WCQ and 2-3 in the 2 gold cups) as opposed to the 10-12 we have now.

2nd CONCACAF as a hole would start to have undeserving teams sneak in. Look at Africa and Asia. There are always a crappy team (North Korea, Cameroon) that gets in and gets embarrassed while a decent team stays home.

I'd actually prefer they go the other way. Be more aggressive with knocking out the minnows and have 1 final round instead of a prelim round then the hex. Have a 8-10 team final round that mirrors CONMEBOL. Will be interesting to see if anything changes.

It looks like from what I've read Asia is alreadly changing their qualifying to have less rounds and bigger groups.


Thanks, good exchange of ideas here, this is what I like about these forums. I do agree it would depend on what other confederations do. If Conmebol sticks with status quo, and even Asia goes to a bigger group, there's little reason for us to change the format. It's a balance. Last time, about 2/3 of the Concacaf teams were out by November 2011. Yes, they have the Caribbean Cup and Copa Centroamericana, are those sufficient to ensure growth of the game in some of those countries though. It is very interesting to see how the different confederations handle it, some making no effort to cut minnows in pre-qualifying (Europe), others really seeing it as a critical piece for their teams. I think it generally reflects confidence in the strength of the teams and of soccer in those countries in general. Since we're not at the elite level yet, we want every opportunity to play the best competition possible, as we should. But we balance that with staying in a relatively weaker region and the region's goals of building stronger depth.

admsghs27
Post #19
Tuesday July 15, 2014 7:14pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 6,060
I read in a post somewhere that Mexico. Jamaica will be the invitees for the 2015 Copa America. Not surprised with Mexico because they always go. But Jamaica come on really. I'm very dissapointed us soccer and gulati don't do enough to get usa invited for every Copa America. Is a huge tournament if Mexico goes all the time why can't we do it.

MSantoine
Post #20
Tuesday July 15, 2014 8:39pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,723
Original post from admsghs27

I read in a post somewhere that Mexico. Jamaica will be the invitees for the 2015 Copa America. Not surprised with Mexico because they always go. But Jamaica come on really. I'm very dissapointed us soccer and gulati don't do enough to get usa invited for every Copa America. Is a huge tournament if Mexico goes all the time why can't we do it.


I can think of two reasons why USA wouldnt go.

1)$$$. Not enough for US Soccer's liking.

2) More realistic. We wont agree to send a U23 roster. Knowing that the casual fan wont realize that its not our full team they'll just see things like Argentina 5-0 vs USA and think we are terrible. It also would cost us in FIFA rankings (even though its not our senior team they are still official matches.

The political side of international soccer

db707
Post #21
Tuesday July 15, 2014 8:57pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 434
Original post from MSantoine

I can think of two reasons why USA wouldnt go.

1)$$$. Not enough for US Soccer's liking.

2) More realistic. We wont agree to send a U23 roster. Knowing that the casual fan wont realize that its not our full team they'll just see things like Argentina 5-0 vs USA and think we are terrible. It also would cost us in FIFA rankings (even though its not our senior team they are still official matches.

The political side of international soccer


Agree fully. I remember Copa America 2007 and seeing how out of their depth our guys were against that Argentina team. If we want to figure out which guys can and can't cut it with the A team against better competition, that's what camps and friendlies are for, not whole tournaments we're not obligated to play in and will tarnish by bringing a weakened squad. It also conflicts with the U-20 World Cup and we get to play the same teams a year later in a similar tournament.

We should, however, schedule friendlies with Conmebol teams this year and next year (much as we did last cycle, played Chile (not an A squad), Argentina and Paraguay in friendlies in succession in early 2011, Colombia late in 2010). And we can in June 2015 schedule at least one game against a European side (may well do more than one) because the Europeans only have one qualifier in that June window.

admsghs27
Post #22
Tuesday July 15, 2014 9:00pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 6,060
I'm sure usa will bring much more $$ than Jamaica, in fact probably more than some south American nations. I don't remember if you can take 3 overage players or just sub 23. But maybe that rule will change. Mexico has done pretty good with sub 23 teams and I'm sure usa can field a pretty strong squad. I mean usa has gone a few times why not keep it up.

db707
Post #23
Tuesday July 15, 2014 9:13pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 434
Original post from admsghs27

I'm sure usa will bring much more $$ than Jamaica, in fact probably more than some south American nations. I don't remember if you can take 3 overage players or just sub 23. But maybe that rule will change. Mexico has done pretty good with sub 23 teams and I'm sure usa can field a pretty strong squad. I mean usa has gone a few times why not keep it up.


I looked back at the squads, Mexico only fielded a primarily U-23 roster last time, in 2011. They lost all 3 matches.

admsghs27
Post #24
Tuesday July 15, 2014 9:30pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 6,060
Yes but Mexico have made the finals, and a few semis I believe. In 2007 they took out Brazil with a young team.

db707
Post #25
Tuesday July 15, 2014 9:37pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 434
Original post from admsghs27

Yes but Mexico have made the finals, and a few semis I believe. In 2007 they took out Brazil with a young team.


With senior squads they have done well. Your point was "Mexico has done pretty good with sub 23 teams" in the Copa America, which is belied by the facts. They beat Brazil in 2007 in group play, they did not eliminate them, and only one of their starters was under the age of 23.

MSantoine
Post #26
Wednesday July 16, 2014 1:52pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,723
I don't need to watch a us lineup that looks like a camp cupcake roster but watered down even more take on brazil, chile, and colombias a teams. We'd play ultra super bunker ball and have like 20% possession. Do we really need to see a team that's led by Beltran, Davis, Evans, and bruin(the type of "regulars" that Mexico and Costa Rica sent in 2011

chillguy1992
Post #27
Wednesday July 16, 2014 10:41pm

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 1,111
Ecaudor is rumored to be playing the United States october 14. I think its a good friendly Ecuador looked good offensively would deffiently be a challenge for our defense. Plus getting a team from another continent is always a bonus.

db707
Post #28
Wednesday July 16, 2014 11:02pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 434
Original post from chillguy1992

Ecaudor is rumored to be playing the United States october 14. I think its a good friendly Ecuador looked good offensively would deffiently be a challenge for our defense. Plus getting a team from another continent is always a bonus.


Ecuador would be a good opponent, they beat us last time in 2011. As I noted, I want us to play the teams we would see in Copa America 2015, like Ecuador, but not with a weakened roster in a tournament that has to be secondary to us (since we have to prioritize the Gold Cup immediately after). Any competitive game we play we should be fielding the best team we possibly can. Friendlies we get more subs, we can experiment more, and of course Camp Cupcake should continue to be used to mine MLS talent.

Jzaval01
Post #29
Wednesday July 30, 2014 7:48pm

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 3,244
http://www.soccerbyives.net/2014/07/colombia-...

EKneezy
Atlanta
Post #30
Wednesday July 30, 2014 7:55pm

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 2,929
So glad the US is doing this. Especially with a bright and exciting team like Colombia

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