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Fraser31
Charleston, South Carolina
Post #196
Monday June 9, 2014 8:41am

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 996
I guess it's always safe to be a cynic...you're either pleasantly surprised, or right.

mmee
Culver City, CA
Post #197
Monday June 9, 2014 9:12am

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 197
Original post from rainORshine

i think people are kidding themselves if they think this is evidence that
1) US is about to have success in brazil
2) JK has a clue what he is doing



Since I've been critical of Klinsy, even after the Nigeria game, can I just quickly say that you're ridiculous?

Also, for your griping about us not finding *THE* formation...
Having a number of options as to how we run at teams is probably better than having one winner. We're not Brazil last decade with a 3-4-3, or Spain's tiki-taka, we can't just do one thing and say "Come at me, bro". If you go all-in with one formation/style, it had better be a world beater.

Fraser31
Charleston, South Carolina
Post #198
Monday June 9, 2014 9:17am

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 996
Original post from rainORshine

for a minute i thought this was serious. right BEFORE the WC and after beating mighty nigeria in a friendly is a good time to draw conclusions... brilliant - high-end comedy!


I just want to know what this team would have to do to convince you of anything. They have the best record of any US team prior, if I'm not mistaken, and arguably the best talent. So anything short of the quarterfinals and you aren't impressed? I mean it hasn't always been pretty but time and time again you've doubted Klinnsman and more often than not he's gotten the results needed.

Have you ever been impressed, convinced, or confident in any USMNT?

I don't want your goals per minute, goals scored against, whatever stats, I just want to know what this team would have to do to impress you. Play better than they are capable of? And don't litter the answer with insults, "you have to be joking me"'s, and "you're out of your minds", because I'm not attacking you I'm just honestly curious what your stance is about this team, especially in comparison to past teams.

mmee
Culver City, CA
Post #199
Monday June 9, 2014 9:22am

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 197
Oh, also:
Our 4-2-3-1 converts into a 4-3-3, 4-4-2 flat or diamond fairly easily. Options are a weapon.

MSantoine
Post #200
Monday June 9, 2014 12:39pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 2,184
I will say that its almost impossible to argue against this being the best world cup team in US history. Take a look at some of the starters and go back and look at recent teams (pre-1994 doesn't count, no one watched it or knew about it, its like including pre-shot clock players in NBA discussions):

Jozy- Would be a starter on every team.
Howard-Would be starter on every team.
Fab- Would start on every team (either a LB or a RB depending on the team)
MB- Would be a starter on every team
Dempsey- Would be a starter on every team
Cameron- Would be a starter on every team (Pope in 2006 was not international caliber anymore)
Jones- Would be a starter on every team except 2002.(Clark/Edu 2010. Mastroeni, probably even Reyna who was close to done in 2006.

Whether we advance or not wont change the facts that we have grown immensely since 2002/2006.

munns5986
Post #201
Monday June 9, 2014 12:45pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 96
[quote]Original post from rainORshine

if whatever JK does works and US advances I will come on here and call him a genius...

Dude there is no reason to tell lies like this.

recycledhumans
DFWTX
Post #202
Monday June 9, 2014 1:53pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,151
We had a good game but Nigeria looked bad (for a team with such quality). That goes to show that a solid team full of decent/good players can beat a bad team full of better players.

Thought Twellman and pretty much all the pundits glossed over a lot of MB's giveaways and failed passes in the first half, but he did a lot better in the second. Looked to me though like Jones was the better playmaker, at least in the first half. Everyone was looking pretty good though, Fab has really turned it up these last 3 matches too, looks like we're firing on all cylinders at exactly the right time.

navi8132
Post #203
Monday June 9, 2014 3:23pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 1,940
McBride and Wynalda may have been better than Jozy at their peaks. Jozy hasn't peaked yet.

MSantoine
Post #204
Monday June 9, 2014 3:39pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 2,184
Original post from navi8132

McBride and Wynalda may have been better than Jozy at their peaks. Jozy hasn't peaked yet.


In his peak McBride was probably better than Jozy right now. But his peak wasnt really during the world cup. In 02 he was coming off a failed trial overseas and came back to MLS. He was successful in SK but I thin most would take Jozy today over Mcbride in 02. In '06 McBride had seemingly lost a step and was in the middle of reinventing himself as a poacher. I dont thin '06 McBride starts in 2014 over Jozy.

Wynalda definitely had a better career than Jozy up to this point but your not taking 1998 Wynalda (a 30 year old who was breaking down as evidence by his ~50 professional games left in his career) over a in his prime/entering his prime Jozy.

'94 Wynalda you could try to argue but firstly are you really taking a 2nd division player over an EPL guy? And secondly that is a lifetime ago and different rules were in play then (24 teams, 3rd place teams making the knockout round, no real asian teams on the scene, no MLS)

Know Nothing
Post #205
Monday June 9, 2014 7:34pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 365
Original post from MSantoine

I will say that its almost impossible to argue against this being the best world cup team in US history. Take a look at some of the starters and go back and look at recent teams (pre-1994 doesn't count, no one watched it or knew about it, its like including pre-shot clock players in NBA discussions):

Jozy- Would be a starter on every team.
Howard-Would be starter on every team.
Fab- Would start on every team (either a LB or a RB depending on the team)
MB- Would be a starter on every team
Dempsey- Would be a starter on every team
Cameron- Would be a starter on every team (Pope in 2006 was not international caliber anymore)
Jones- Would be a starter on every team except 2002.(Clark/Edu 2010. Mastroeni, probably even Reyna who was close to done in 2006.

Whether we advance or not wont change the facts that we have grown immensely since 2002/2006.


I will agree that we have grown and as a group of 11 we are improved. However saying that these individuals would be starters in any team is just, for the lack of a better word...silly.

A better exercise, IMO, would be to list the best ever 11 at their prime. In my opinion, it would be like this (4-4-2 Diamond):

Friedel,
Dolo, Pope, Balboa,FJ
Dooley
Reyna, Ramos
MB
LD, McBride

In your argument you listed MB and Jones in every team, but that is a tough ask in a three man midfield with the likes of Ramos, Dooley, and Reyna. I will admit to being biased, but a slightly past his prime Dooley would still be the best option in the holding midfield spot over Jones and Reyna and Ramos are technically better players.

I don't think the best of Deuce is better than the best of LD and quite frankly a past his prime McBride was able to be a starter in the PL and score with a little more regularity than Jozy.

mmee
Culver City, CA
Post #206
Monday June 9, 2014 9:02pm

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 197
Original post from Know Nothing

and quite frankly a past his prime McBride was able to be a starter in the PL and score with a little more regularity than Jozy.


Impossible to disagree.

cudevil
Post #207
Monday June 9, 2014 9:54pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 206
Original post from Know Nothing

I will agree that we have grown and as a group of 11 we are improved. However saying that these individuals would be starters in any team is just, for the lack of a better word...silly.

A better exercise, IMO, would be to list the best ever 11 at their prime. In my opinion, it would be like this (4-4-2 Diamond):

Friedel,
Dolo, Pope, Balboa,FJ
Dooley
Reyna, Ramos
MB
LD, McBride

In your argument you listed MB and Jones in every team, but that is a tough ask in a three man midfield with the likes of Ramos, Dooley, and Reyna. I will admit to being biased, but a slightly past his prime Dooley would still be the best option in the holding midfield spot over Jones and Reyna and Ramos are technically better players.

I don't think the best of Deuce is better than the best of LD and quite frankly a past his prime McBride was able to be a starter in the PL and score with a little more regularity than Jozy.


Boca > Marcelo

Know Nothing
Post #208
Monday June 9, 2014 10:23pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 365
Original post from cudevil

Boca > Marcelo


It was a toss up and I considered Boca...maybe it was the hair

rainORshine
Post #209
Monday June 9, 2014 10:25pm

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 1,773
Original post from Fraser31

I just want to know what this team would have to do to convince you of anything. They have the best record of any US team prior, if I'm not mistaken, and arguably the best talent. So anything short of the quarterfinals and you aren't impressed? I mean it hasn't always been pretty but time and time again you've doubted Klinnsman and more often than not he's gotten the results needed.

Have you ever been impressed, convinced, or confident in any USMNT?

I don't want your goals per minute, goals scored against, whatever stats, I just want to know what this team would have to do to impress you. Play better than they are capable of? And don't litter the answer with insults, "you have to be joking me"'s, and "you're out of your minds", because I'm not attacking you I'm just honestly curious what your stance is about this team, especially in comparison to past teams.


for me US soccer has now progressed talent-wise to a legit top 20 team in the world ... and the bar is playing well against other top teams - basically playing close to 50/50 v top 20-25 teams

i see 8 legit contests against high-caliber (non-CONCACAF) teams since JK took over - with 1 win (italy), 1 tie (russia), 6 losses (belgium x 2, ecuador, france, brazil, ukraine) and a goal differential of -9

adding two non-competitive games v germany c team and bosnia - who were were dominating at halftime before making wholesale subs - its 3-1-6 with a -7 GD

sure, 4 of those losses came in 2012. maybe we are significantly better now. ill believe it when i see it

if US comes close to 50/50 in WC - so close to 4 points and 0 GD - ill be impressed

Fraser31
Charleston, South Carolina
Post #210
Tuesday June 10, 2014 12:42am

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 996
Original post from rainORshine

for me US soccer has now progressed talent-wise to a legit top 20 team in the world ... and the bar is playing well against other top teams - basically playing close to 50/50 v top 20-25 teams

i see 8 legit contests against high-caliber (non-CONCACAF) teams since JK took over - with 1 win (italy), 1 tie (russia), 6 losses (belgium x 2, ecuador, france, brazil, ukraine) and a goal differential of -9

adding two non-competitive games v germany c team and bosnia - who were were dominating at halftime before making wholesale subs - its 3-1-6 with a -7 GD

sure, 4 of those losses came in 2012. maybe we are significantly better now. ill believe it when i see it

if US comes close to 50/50 in WC - so close to 4 points and 0 GD - ill be impressed


Thank you, I think that's reasonable.

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