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rainORshine
Post #136
Monday December 29, 2014 6:05am

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 2,097
Original post from TheTruth

Not following. Are you saying that Cameron is better today but Morales will probably be better in 6 months so let's jump on the Morales wagon now? Why not just wait until/unless Morales is in fact better?


no, i think morales is the better CM option now.

"in fact" better? the only way to prove that point is to give him opportunities with 1st team

hamsamwich
Post #137
Monday December 29, 2014 2:59pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,415
I just don't get why people are opposed to turning the page on Cameron? If we can do it with LD and Bocanegra then surely Cameron can go too. As Jurgen said, we are starting a new cycle with new players.

Thanks for your contribution to a good WC in Brazil last year Geoff, it was fun. Next up, Williams, Morales, hell I'd even rather see Bedoya deployed with Bradley before we put that bull in a china shop Cameron on the field again.

cudevil
Post #138
Monday December 29, 2014 3:08pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,082
Original post from rainORshine

why should we not assume that ingolsadt will be promoted and that morales will keep his spot?

im comparing CMs to a utility player. i prefer CMs. what does not make sense to you?

williams has been healthy, including 90 mins today

if i am creating a CM "pecking order" today with those 4 players, it would be:
1) morales
2) williams
3) cameron
4) beckerman

i would suggest that people who would put cameron and beckerman at the top are failing to understand the bigger picture


I'm not sure what Morales has shown to be placed at the top of the list of CM's. He's been pedestrian at best in his (brief) national team appearances. Williams, if healthy, has shown more. So has Cameron.

cudevil
Post #139
Monday December 29, 2014 3:13pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,082
Original post from hamsamwich

I just don't get why people are opposed to turning the page on Cameron? If we can do it with LD and Bocanegra then surely Cameron can go too. As Jurgen said, we are starting a new cycle with new players.

Thanks for your contribution to a good WC in Brazil last year Geoff, it was fun. Next up, Williams, Morales, hell I'd even rather see Bedoya deployed with Bradley before we put that bull in a china shop Cameron on the field again.


I don't think people have trouble "turning the page" so to speak, but the fact is Cameron is still in his or relatively close to his prime, and he's one of the few field players that is starting every week in a top league. Maybe he's not in the plans for 2018, but over the next couple of years, I don't see where we have enough talent to leave a Prem starter out of the starting 11. I'd certainly take Cam at CB over Jones or Omar.

hamsamwich
Post #140
Monday December 29, 2014 3:34pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,415
I would too.

Jzaval01
Post #141
Monday December 29, 2014 8:31pm

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 3,315
Original post from cudevil

I don't think people have trouble "turning the page" so to speak, but the fact is Cameron is still in his or relatively close to his prime, and he's one of the few field players that is starting every week in a top league. Maybe he's not in the plans for 2018, but over the next couple of years, I don't see where we have enough talent to leave a Prem starter out of the starting 11. I'd certainly take Cam at CB over Jones or Omar.


He is a CDM/RB Prem starter there a reason he doesnt play CB because he isnt good enough to be Prem CB according to club decisions. I mean isnt that the reason he wanted to make a move to get more minutes a CB or CDM well he got his CDM wish.

How some what to get rid of Cameron is insane. We never moved from LD. LD was still up to this day would do a hell of a job so to say we moved from him is false. Boca is the only one we moved on from and he was about 32,33 ish CB. CB never age well usually. Cameron is what 29 still in EPL and his prime.

Morales isnt better than Cameron plain and simple not if we compare them today at least from what he has shown

rainORshine
Post #142
Tuesday December 30, 2014 4:58am

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 2,097
Original post from cudevil

I'm not sure what Morales has shown to be placed at the top of the list of CM's. He's been pedestrian at best in his (brief) national team appearances. Williams, if healthy, has shown more. So has Cameron.


morales has 1 start for USMNT - at LM. he has played total of 178 mins (less than 2 full games) - mostly at LM.

lets put it this way, if JK moves forward with moving JJ back, there is an opening at CM. who gets first dibs?

an argument for morales
- actually plays a true CM week in week out (and actually wears the 6 jersey)
- having a great season at ingolstadt
- ingolstadt having a great year in bund 2 - 7 points clear at top
- 24 years old

this is the PERFECT time in the cycle to bring in new blood. even if US does not win GC they still have a shot at CONFED

i dont see how sticking with cameron (29 y/o utility player at stoke city) or beckerman (32 y/o MLS lifer) helps move the program forward

Jzaval01
Post #143
Tuesday December 30, 2014 6:39am

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 3,315
Original post from rainORshine

morales has 1 start for USMNT - at LM. he has played total of 178 mins (less than 2 full games) - mostly at LM.

lets put it this way, if JK moves forward with moving JJ back, there is an opening at CM. who gets first dibs?

an argument for morales
- actually plays a true CM week in week out (and actually wears the 6 jersey)
- having a great season at ingolstadt
- ingolstadt having a great year in bund 2 - 7 points clear at top
- 24 years old

this is the PERFECT time in the cycle to bring in new blood. even if US does not win GC they still have a shot at CONFED

i dont see how sticking with cameron (29 y/o utility player at stoke city) or beckerman (32 y/o MLS lifer) helps move the program forward


Well maybe he played him in LM because he wasnt good enough who knows why JK does that.
JK will stick with Jones at CB that his project.
As for Morales until JK plays him at a CM and Morales plays well then there should be consideration but you cant assume he will play good in his position at the national team until we see it. Same thing with other player like Green or Zelalem.
I think Morales and other prospect would be good to be throw in the grow stages but come elimination we have to win world cup.
WHy? Because whoever in 2017 is in consideration will get an invaluable experience playing a year before the world cup under Jurgen.
Come trophies or tournaments you put your best players.

rainORshine
Post #144
Tuesday December 30, 2014 7:02am

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 2,097
Original post from Jzaval01

Well maybe he played him in LM because he wasnt good enough who knows why JK does that.
JK will stick with Jones at CB that his project.
As for Morales until JK plays him at a CM and Morales plays well then there should be consideration but you cant assume he will play good in his position at the national team until we see it. Same thing with other player like Green or Zelalem.
I think Morales and other prospect would be good to be throw in the grow stages but come elimination we have to win world cup.
WHy? Because whoever in 2017 is in consideration will get an invaluable experience playing a year before the world cup under Jurgen.
Come trophies or tournaments you put your best players.


for sure cant assume. the question is who gets mins in march friendlies...

we will have more info at that point, but based on current info id prefer to see morales and/or williams before cameron/beckerman

we'll see how things shake out over next couple months

Jzaval01
Post #145
Tuesday December 30, 2014 7:05am

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 3,315
Original post from rainORshine

for sure cant assume. the question is who gets mins in march friendlies...

we will have more info at that point, but based on current info id prefer to see morales and/or williams before cameron/beckerman

we'll see how things shake out over next couple months


If were talking about friendlies than for sure! We know what Cameron and Beckerman brings. I definitely want to see Williams and Morales in the next friendlies they are called up.

Fraser31
Charleston, South Carolina
Post #146
Tuesday December 30, 2014 8:38am

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 1,408
We only kind of know what Cameron brings at DM. His age should be less of a concern considering Jones had a great world cup at his age this cycle. The only way we can discern who should get the nod is to see both of them get a start at the DM position and go from there. Of course if Cameron is now going to be exclusively used as a RB for Stoke then idk wtf to do. You hardly ever see a case where a guy is playing consistent EPL minutes and we're considering NOT playing him.

hamsamwich
Post #147
Tuesday December 30, 2014 10:32am

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,415
@jzaval- I believe that Jurgen plays guys slightly out of position (in this case, morales at LM; we've seen Torres, Williams, Mix recently played out of position to name a few) I. Order to understand what they can't do.
For example as the game gets stretched, players find themselves in different spots. Ideally, Jurgen likes the 4-3-3 and it's best if all 3 of the mids can be versatile and move around. Seeing if morales if strictly a stay at home #6, or if he has the ability to do more in a game- that's the point of moving morales around.
Think of sweinsteiger from Germany, who looks like the holding midfielder in build (and could do the job there if asked), but skill wise can do more. This allows for Toni kroos to do his thing, but if ever Toni kroos drifts offensively to make plays, bastian sweinsteiger can rotate an cover as a temporary #6. Morales, like Bradley and Jones can recover and do that. But can Morales make plays in the attack as well?

skangles
DC
Post #148
Saturday May 23, 2015 6:36pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 5,448
Cameron signed a long-term extension to stay at Stoke. Shall we revisit one of Juergen's many quotes?

"But from a competitive standpoint, it's normal that a coach wishes that his players go to the highest level possible. Which would be in his case the Bundesliga or Serie A or La Liga or even the French league, if it's not the Premier League right now."

He belongs on our 23 for the Gold Cup.

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #149
Saturday May 23, 2015 6:51pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 10,582
But where do you play Caeron with Nats?

skangles
DC
Post #150
Saturday May 23, 2015 7:27pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 5,448
Personally I like him at DM but we haven't had a ton of chances to see him there. I don't think that any CB in our pool besides Brooks has differentiated themselves from Cameron and he gives depth at RB although Juergen clearly prefers speedy outside backs.

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