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admsghs27
Post #16
Thursday May 8, 2014 6:41pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 6,060
Original post from joey11

2tone hit the nail on the head! IF the MLS had the same spending allowed as the EPL and schedule ran same as Europe, Image what owners such as the Kraft's in NE could spend! Think if the EPL teams owned by American investors (Liverpool, Man. U. Ashton Villa, etc) could spend that money on MLS teams? Foreign investors who would love to spend here in the US? BUT they can't. Those teams are filled with top internationals from all over the globe. With MLS constraints in spending and when the league runs, that's never going to happen. MLS is a competitive league and I don't think that far behind Liga MX, but no one could or wold argue they're at level of EPL!


Definitely If that were the case the Question would be Reversed how many premiership teams would Survive in MLS ? But i will come back 10-20 years from now with that. As of now i would say 6-10 teams would fare well. Outside the top 5 in epl their all very beatable. Until there's no salary cap and we have owners willing to spend is over no one will come close to touching MLS. USA has the most Billionaires in the world imagine if they partnered up and purchased mls clubs with no salary cap/spending limit i will feel sorry for leagues around the world. But a negative to that would be a decrease in the level of the mnt, Just look at England. How many English players are on the top epl clubs ? not many, as a matter of fact i think Man city only has like 1 English player in their starting 11 and their the best club. just imagine the top teams here with only 1 or 2 Americans on the team it would be bad for our national team.

dolcem
Post #17
Thursday May 8, 2014 6:58pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,805
[quote]Original post from kicksNgiggles10

I am going to forget that you didn't just mention LSU and Auburn and neglected to mention Alabama and decide to forgive you dolcem.[/quote][/quote]

Ha! You're right, my apologies. Pretty much any of the top three or so SEC teams any given year.

[quote]Original post from hamsamwich

I think Kansas City and Seattle would be a couple that MAY have a chance, but then again the English Premier League has the world's best players because they pay so much. Even a bottom feeder like Sunderland has Jozy (supposedly USA's #9) on the bench.

I disagree in a certain way however, Dolcem- I think the EPL teams may struggle against the Mexican teams themselves (I'm referring to the Fulhams, Cardiffs and other strugglers). Mexican clubs pay good money also for their players, hence the relative strength of the league compared to MLS.[/quote]

I'm going to disagree with the first part, I don't think it'd be close...Dempsey, Martins, and maybe two or three others (and that's being generous) might be able to play in the Premier League, but the rest wouldn't. Hence, they wouldn't stay up.

I do agree that EPL teams would struggle against some Mexican teams...first of all, because Liga MX is good, and second, because the style of play is much different. When the style is different you have a greater chance of upsets.

[quote]Original post from MSantoine

Even the cheapest EPL team has a team salary double-triple of top mls teams. You can't compete with that kind of disparity. It's unlikely any mls would avoid relegation. It would be like a conference USA team competing in sec. They'd always be bottom 2-3[/quote]

True. But let's not also forget that simply raising the cap wouldn't fix everything, either. The foreign players would improve but the Americans players would be the same (and they are the bulk of the team). Now of course if we got rid of the salary cap and one or two MLS teams got to pick all of the best MLS players, it'd be a different conversation.

[quote]Original post from Rey Regicide

If I may take a stab at it, maybe he feels controversy because of the perception that MLS is as good as the bottom half of the EPL. A view held from some supporters of USA footie.

But if the teams wouldn't survive, then the quality cannot be comparable... am I right?[/quote]

Correct. People on these boards have specifically said that some MLS teams would stay up in the Premiership. And they do compare it to the Championship/low-level Premiership. I don't want to piss on anyone's parade but I just wanted to see how commonly held that view was. And everyone in the thread has made good posts so that makes me feel better.

[quote]Original post from 2tone

If LA, NY, Seattle were in the EPL there would be no financial constraints. Those three teams could definitely compete with their financial resources.[/quote]

True, but this is a fictitious scenario. Also, as I said before, changing financial constraints would improve the foreign players but not the core of the squad: the American players (unless in turn this MLS team could buy the best American players from the other MLS teams).
GET A CLUB TEAM
Rey Regicide
Post #18
Thursday May 8, 2014 7:09pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 2,001
The game changer is goign to be when enough people start watching the league, thereby increasing the amount of money doled out to the league via TV deals. Once the league has guaranteed income from TV and merchandise, they can take the shackles off and go nuts and overleverage as much as they desire, well... you get the idea.

At the moment, the financial health of the league has to be taken into consideration as a whole. Until that changes, we'll always be a step down with regards to ttalent, unless a Gladwell type outlier happens in the US where every single acadmey starts spewing incredible homegrown talent, and every freddy adu comes through.

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #19
Thursday May 8, 2014 7:14pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 10,345
This whole scenario is fictitious. Why would they have to buy the best American players? This was do you believe MLS could stay up in the premier league. If those MLS teams are in the EPL then yes because there have no financial constraints.

If you're handicapping the MLS teams with MLS financial constraints, and asking if they can stay up in the EPL then I would say probably not.

MLS teams right now don't have the talented depth IMO to stay up in the EPL. Could some teams be competitive like LA, Seattle, Portland, KC, and NY? Absolutely they would be competitive, but I don't think any of them would stay up with the current lack of MLS financial constraints and lack of talented depth.

dolcem
Post #20
Thursday May 8, 2014 7:28pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,805
Original post from Rey Regicide

The game changer is goign to be when enough people start watching the league, thereby increasing the amount of money doled out to the league via TV deals. Once the league has guaranteed income from TV and merchandise, they can take the shackles off and go nuts and overleverage as much as they desire, well... you get the idea.

At the moment, the financial health of the league has to be taken into consideration as a whole. Until that changes, we'll always be a step down with regards to ttalent, unless a Gladwell type outlier happens in the US where every single acadmey starts spewing incredible homegrown talent, and every freddy adu comes through.


As I said before, more money means better foreign players, but has nothing to do with the bulk of the team, the American players. Paying them more won't magically make them better.

The outlier (well, only read like the first chapter or so, so I can't remember specifically what he means by that) is that kids in the US don't take soccer seriously before the age of 7 or so...meaning they learn the game at age 5 or 6 by playing on an organized team. That is one of the worst ways to learn how to play soccer. You need to constantly play with a ball as soon as you can walk, then start to play pickup games when you're old enough, and then, after you already know how to play soccer, join an organized team with a coach. This is a very, very simply method that every other soccer powerhouse uses, but we in the US are insistent on doing our own thing and try and treating it like an American sport. Until we adopt the model the other countries use, it doesn't matter if we double the amount of kids playing soccer (already more than anywhere else in the world) or if we get "better athletes" playing the game (imagine of Eddie Johnson was even faster...or if Omar Gonzalez was even taller!), we'll never get any better than we are now. It shouldn't be a surprise that more than ten years after our Golden Generation we still aren't producing better players.

Original post from 2tone

This whole scenario is fictitious. Why would they have to buy the best American players? This was do you believe MLS could stay up in the premier league. If those MLS teams are in the EPL then yes because there have no financial constraints.

If you're handicapping the MLS teams with MLS financial constraints, and asking if they can stay up in the EPL then I would say probably not.

MLS teams right now don't have the talented depth IMO to stay up in the EPL. Could some teams be competitive like LA, Seattle, Portland, KC, and NY? Absolutely they would be competitive, but I don't think any of them would stay up with the current lack of MLS financial constraints and lack of talented depth.


Well beyond financial constraints there is the foreign players limit...and even if we were to ignore that, the Premier League has the homegrown players rule.
GET A CLUB TEAM
joey11
Post #21
Thursday May 8, 2014 7:36pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 278
Original post from admsghs27

Definitely If that were the case the Question would be Reversed how many premiership teams would Survive in MLS ? But i will come back 10-20 years from now with that. As of now i would say 6-10 teams would fare well. Outside the top 5 in epl their all very beatable. Until there's no salary cap and we have owners willing to spend is over no one will come close to touching MLS. USA has the most Billionaires in the world imagine if they partnered up and purchased mls clubs with no salary cap/spending limit i will feel sorry for leagues around the world. But a negative to that would be a decrease in the level of the mnt, Just look at England. How many English players are on the top epl clubs ? not many, as a matter of fact i think Man city only has like 1 English player in their starting 11 and their the best club. just imagine the top teams here with only 1 or 2 Americans on the team it would be bad for our national team.
History has shown that. The old NASL. Look at the NY Cosmos, Ricky Davis was only "good" American so they tried "let's make the Washington Diplomats an all American team" big failure, league folded for many reasons but one reason was American wanted to see Americans play.

Rey Regicide
Post #22
Thursday May 8, 2014 8:07pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 2,001
Original post from dolcem

As I said before, more money means better foreign players, but has nothing to do with the bulk of the team, the American players. Paying them more won't magically make them better.

The outlier (well, only read like the first chapter or so, so I can't remember specifically what he means by that) is that kids in the US don't take soccer seriously before the age of 7 or so...meaning they learn the game at age 5 or 6 by playing on an organized team. That is one of the worst ways to learn how to play soccer. You need to constantly play with a ball as soon as you can walk, then start to play pickup games when you're old enough, and then, after you already know how to play soccer, join an organized team with a coach. This is a very, very simply method that every other soccer powerhouse uses, but we in the US are insistent on doing our own thing and try and treating it like an American sport. Until we adopt the model the other countries use, it doesn't matter if we double the amount of kids playing soccer (already more than anywhere else in the world) or if we get "better athletes" playing the game (imagine of Eddie Johnson was even faster...or if Omar Gonzalez was even taller!), we'll never get any better than we are now. It shouldn't be a surprise that more than ten years after our Golden Generation we still aren't producing better players.

Well beyond financial constraints there is the foreign players limit...and even if we were to ignore that, the Premier League has the homegrown players rule.


that's what i was implying more money is going to result in more foreign players (the reaosn for success in leauges in europe, aside from mabye german and to an extent spanish leagues)

the outlier was referring to our teams producing homegrown, but more relevent, dirt cheap labour, labour our leagues can afford, and then would effectively lose to higher paying leagues, then and only then would our teams be CLOSE to comparable to better leagues.

the problem wthi player development int he country, well there's a bevy

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