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dolcem
Post #1
Thursday May 8, 2014 7:40am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,805
Without being partial to our league, how many MLS teams do we realistically think could finish outside of the bottom three in the Premiership? Let's use the Premiership for comparison because stylistically it's the most similar to the MLS (American soccer is an imitation of English soccer). MLS players would be more likely to make it there than they would in, say La Liga.

This will piss people off but I don't think any would.

I think a good comparison from American sports would be when people compare the top college football team to the worst pro football team. LSU or Auburn definitely has 5-6 guys that could play well in the NFL right now. But the worst team, the Houston Texans, has over 50.

Let's take the best MLS team over the past 5 years or so: the Galaxy. Now of course when Landon was in his prime, he was a very good EPL player, and Beckham still would have been as well. Keane, too. But that's only three players...what about the other 8 in the starting line-up? And the bench? This isn't gridiron; a team is only as strong as its weakest player. And the other Galaxy stars have been players like Omar Gonzalez, Sean Franklin, Edson Buddle...OG would get eaten alive in the Premier League. Edson Buddle was barely a 2. Bundesliga player. Franklin isn't Premier League material, either.

Teams in the Championship pay better than the salaries of a lot of MLS starters...if those players could go to top teams in the Championship, they would. But other than a few on every team, I don't think there are many good enough.

Landon said it best after losing in the CCL (I forgot to which Mexican team)...that the gap between the MLS teams and Liga MX teams is still big. Yeah, the MLS team might have a couple DP's better than anyone on the Liga MX team, but then there are the other 9 players.

Every year or two the MLS is able to successfully export (excluding failures such as EJ and Shea) a player to a top European league...that means that there are a handful of players good enough to play in these leagues, and that the rest of the players aren't. That's why I doubt any MLS teams are better than Sunderland. Sunderland might look like they suck but that's because they are playing against Premiership teams that would beat up on MLS teams (in competitive matches). And it's not like they're too good for Jozy.

Of course it is important to remember that the MLS has a lot of parity. Even the bad teams have a couple good players that could play at a high level.

Raising the salary cap will help us get better foreign players but the majority of the players are the Americans produced by the NCAA (and increasingly, the academies). Paying them more won't magically make them better players. We need to wait for our youth system to develop and populate an entire league with better players and coaches.
GET A CLUB TEAM
admsghs27
Post #2
Thursday May 8, 2014 8:20am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 6,060
all will make it.. . even a few usl teams.

Chrisou101
Post #3
Thursday May 8, 2014 9:10am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 626
Original post from admsghs27

all will make it.. . even a few usl teams.
This is a joke right?

Rey Regicide
Post #4
Thursday May 8, 2014 12:42pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 2,001
Original post from dolcem

Without being partial to our league, how many MLS teams do we realistically think could finish outside of the bottom three in the Premiership? Let's use the Premiership for comparison because stylistically it's the most similar to the MLS (American soccer is an imitation of English soccer). MLS players would be more likely to make it there than they would in, say La Liga.

This will piss people off but I don't think any would.

I think a good comparison from American sports would be when people compare the top college football team to the worst pro football team. LSU or Auburn definitely has 5-6 guys that could play well in the NFL right now. But the worst team, the Houston Texans, has over 50.

Let's take the best MLS team over the past 5 years or so: the Galaxy. Now of course when Landon was in his prime, he was a very good EPL player, and Beckham still would have been as well. Keane, too. But that's only three players...what about the other 8 in the starting line-up? And the bench? This isn't gridiron; a team is only as strong as its weakest player. And the other Galaxy stars have been players like Omar Gonzalez, Sean Franklin, Edson Buddle...OG would get eaten alive in the Premier League. Edson Buddle was barely a 2. Bundesliga player. Franklin isn't Premier League material, either.

Teams in the Championship pay better than the salaries of a lot of MLS starters...if those players could go to top teams in the Championship, they would. But other than a few on every team, I don't think there are many good enough.

Landon said it best after losing in the CCL (I forgot to which Mexican team)...that the gap between the MLS teams and Liga MX teams is still big. Yeah, the MLS team might have a couple DP's better than anyone on the Liga MX team, but then there are the other 9 players.

Every year or two the MLS is able to successfully export (excluding failures such as EJ and Shea) a player to a top European league...that means that there are a handful of players good enough to play in these leagues, and that the rest of the players aren't. That's why I doubt any MLS teams are better than Sunderland. Sunderland might look like they suck but that's because they are playing against Premiership teams that would beat up on MLS teams (in competitive matches). And it's not like they're too good for Jozy.

Of course it is important to remember that the MLS has a lot of parity. Even the bad teams have a couple good players that could play at a high level.

Raising the salary cap will help us get better foreign players but the majority of the players are the Americans produced by the NCAA (and increasingly, the academies). Paying them more won't magically make them better players. We need to wait for our youth system to develop and populate an entire league with better players and coaches.


I have to agree, none of the teams would finish above the relegation mark. Adam Johnson, Borini, even Altidore up top would represent the best talent in the EPL, say nothing for Conor Wickham. Even if they played hoof it up, they'll have success against shoddy CB defending, from the likes of Omar Gonzalez (mistake prone), the Columbus Crew backline (seriously how many floated balls are goign to confuse the Costa Rican CB gonzalez?) maybe it's a gonzalez thing....

richieJkulesaNY
Post #5
Thursday May 8, 2014 12:50pm

Joined Jun 2012
Total Posts: 1,016
NYCFC could! But seriously, I completely agree. Although, if the Sounders had a "premier league" coach, I think they could at least fight for 17th. I dont watch the Sounders all that much, so i cant say this definitively.

How many teams would be able to put a full season in the Championship and gain promotion?

Rey Regicide
Post #6
Thursday May 8, 2014 1:08pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 2,001
And this is all with the feeling that in a couple of years I feel this will change, we definitely will be able to field teams that could for 38 weeks compete with EPL. But regardless of where we are financially, schedule wise, if we can't hack a comp like Champions League (concacaf), we have no business competing against teams that even in the bottom half of the league, the aston villas call on members of national team internationals. If Obefemi Martins produces in MLS, Sessegnon, would DESTROY defenses in MLS.

admsghs27
Post #7
Thursday May 8, 2014 1:25pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 6,060
Of Course lol.

hamsamwich
Post #8
Thursday May 8, 2014 1:33pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,161
I think Kansas City and Seattle would be a couple that MAY have a chance, but then again the English Premier League has the world's best players because they pay so much. Even a bottom feeder like Sunderland has Jozy (supposedly USA's #9) on the bench.

I disagree in a certain way however, Dolcem- I think the EPL teams may struggle against the Mexican teams themselves (I'm referring to the Fulhams, Cardiffs and other strugglers). Mexican clubs pay good money also for their players, hence the relative strength of the league compared to MLS.

kicksNgiggles10
Birmingham
Post #9
Thursday May 8, 2014 2:25pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 572
[quote]Original post from dolcem

Without being partial to our league, how many MLS teams do we realistically think could finish outside of the bottom three in the Premiership? Let's use the Premiership for comparison because stylistically it's the most similar to the MLS (American soccer is an imitation of English soccer). MLS players would be more likely to make it there than they would in, say La Liga.

This will piss people off but I don't think any would.

I think a good comparison from American sports would be when people compare the top college football team to the worst pro football team. LSU or Auburn definitely has 5-6 guys that could play well in the NFL right now. But the worst team, the Houston Texans, has over 50.[/quote]
I am going to forget that you didn't just mention LSU and Auburn and neglected to mention Alabama and decide to forgive you dolcem.[/quote]

TheTruth
Post #10
Thursday May 8, 2014 2:59pm

Joined Dec 2013
Total Posts: 950
Why do you think your claim is going to piss people off? It's pretty non-controversial. You're not going to get any strong disagreement from any reasonable person. Sure, by some miracle an MLS might stay up once in a while, but doubtful.

MSantoine
Post #11
Thursday May 8, 2014 3:04pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,723
Even the cheapest EPL team has a team salary double-triple of top mls teams. You can't compete with that kind of disparity. It's unlikely any mls would avoid relegation. It would be like a conference USA team competing in sec. They'd always be bottom 2-3

Rey Regicide
Post #12
Thursday May 8, 2014 3:30pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 2,001
Original post from TheTruth

Why do you think your claim is going to piss people off? It's pretty non-controversial. You're not going to get any strong disagreement from any reasonable person. Sure, by some miracle an MLS might stay up once in a while, but doubtful.


If I may take a stab at it, maybe he feels controversy because of the perception that MLS is as good as the bottom half of the EPL. A view held from some supporters of USA footie.

But if the teams wouldn't survive, then the quality cannot be comparable... am I right?

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #13
Thursday May 8, 2014 4:06pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 10,374
Original post from MSantoine

Even the cheapest EPL team has a team salary double-triple of top mls teams. You can't compete with that kind of disparity. It's unlikely any mls would avoid relegation. It would be like a conference USA team competing in sec. They'd always be bottom 2-3


If LA, NY, Seattle were in the EPL there would be no financial constraints. Those three teams could definitely compete with their financial resources.

joey11
Post #14
Thursday May 8, 2014 6:24pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 278
Original post from 2tone

If LA, NY, Seattle were in the EPL there would be no financial constraints. Those three teams could definitely compete with their financial resources.
2tone hit the nail on the head! IF the MLS had the same spending allowed as the EPL and schedule ran same as Europe, Image what owners such as the Kraft's in NE could spend! Think if the EPL teams owned by American investors (Liverpool, Man. U. Ashton Villa, etc) could spend that money on MLS teams? Foreign investors who would love to spend here in the US? BUT they can't. Those teams are filled with top internationals from all over the globe. With MLS constraints in spending and when the league runs, that's never going to happen. MLS is a competitive league and I don't think that far behind Liga MX, but no one could or wold argue they're at level of EPL!

stone88
Post #15
Thursday May 8, 2014 6:36pm

Joined Aug 2012
Total Posts: 1,513
Currently none would survive in the EPL. However eventually I could see several of the best teams in the MLS being able to beat lower to middle table EPL teams, sort of the way it is for the 2nd tier leagues in Europe. Take portugal and holland for example, Benefica, Porto, Sporting, Ajax and PSV aren't ever going to really compete evenly year in and year out with ManU, Man City, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal, there is just too much money pumped into those teams. However, they'd do veryy well against all the other middle to lower table EPL teams. We are still long ways even from this, but I could see this happening.

Garber always says he wants the MLS to be the best league in the world. TBH, I don't think the US will ever, atleast not in my lifetime, have a league as good as the EPL, Bundesliga, or La Liga. However, I do think the MLS could eventually reach the level of the talent seen in the Belgian, Netherlands, Russian and Turkish and Greek leagues, only with more parity. If any league on this side of the globe will eventually compete with the big boy leagues in Europe it will be the Brazilian league. As Brazil slowly moves out of the 3rd world and into the 1st, they will have the soccer history, culture, knowledge and now the money to be just as good as the Bundesliga, La Liga or EPL.

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