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navi8132
Post #76
Wednesday April 16, 2014 6:38pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 1,942
IF Jurgen plays a high line, I am not sure if he will or won't, we will be destroyed (by all 3 teams).

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #77
Wednesday April 16, 2014 6:52pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 5,025
Love how supposed fans have little to no faith in the potential 23 WC USMNT.

You guys act like their opponents are invincible.

Makes me laugh.

mmee
Culver City, CA
Post #78
Thursday April 17, 2014 1:50am

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 197
They aren't invincible.
But two of them are uphill from us.
And we have multiple players in the likely 23 who aren't playing great.

Ghana is absolutely a winnable game for us, barring any free PKs for them (I'm looking at you, Markus Merk).

I remember when I saw the starting lineup for US Ghana 2010 with Bornstein and Clark in it. Sad day.

stone88
Post #79
Thursday April 17, 2014 2:30am

Joined Aug 2012
Total Posts: 840
Original post from 2tone

Love how supposed fans have little to no faith in the potential 23 WC USMNT.

You guys act like their opponents are invincible.

Makes me laugh.


Go ahead and laugh 2tone, but this is the weakest USMNT Defense in recent history! In 2002 we had Pope and Sanneh in their prime and in 2010 we had Boca and Dolo in their prime, all hall of fame USMNT Defenders. Who are the Hall of Fame defenders this go around?? Nobody! We have too many Jimmy Conrad type defenders and not enough Eddie Popes or Steve Cherundolos. That is what makes me lose the most faith.

Hell, in 2006 we even had Dolo, Boca and Pope, but got put into a group of death and got pummeled.

However, the Ghana game is a toss up IMO, and we could possibly get an upset against Portugal or Germany, but I'm going to temper my expectations. I just hope we show well being that this is probably going to be the most watched world cup EVER in the US.

dolcem
Post #80
Thursday April 17, 2014 2:36am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,045
Original post from richieJkulesaNY

Formation is not tactics...

Cameron is your DCM, Bradley is your box to box and Dempsey is your CAM/2nd forward. What hole in the midfield?


Not sure what your first sentence is referring to...

If Bradley is playing as a box-to-box than there isn't a hole in the midfield (because he's tracking back on defense). If we have someone playing as a #10 in a 4-4-2 diamond (with wingers), as some posters here are suggesting, than yes, there is a hole in the midfield. Against Mexico, Bradley was playing far forward and Dempsey was playing more as a second striker than as a CAM, and when they woke up in the second half they exploited the massive amounts of space in the middle of the pitch. Of course the 8 will play farther forward than the 6 but it was too much that game. And at the end when Dempsey started to drop back a bit more and combine with the other mids we looked better. The 4-5-1 suits us best.

And no way Cameron plays as a DM for us. He's desperately needed in defense and he doesn't have enough experience playing there. And it's too late for him to start. But that's a different topic.
NO ONE GIVES A SHIT ABOUT WHAT LINEUP YOU USE IN FIFA
dolcem
Post #81
Thursday April 17, 2014 2:47am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,045
Original post from 2tone

Love how supposed fans have little to no faith in the potential 23 WC USMNT.

You guys act like their opponents are invincible.

Makes me laugh.


How many World Cups have you been to? Optimism has nothing to do with being a fan. Germany is the second best team in the world and Portugal is probably the third best in Europe and the fifth best in the world (yes, they suck in qualifying as they always do, but every tournament they're very good). They are on a different planet than we are. And Ghana is better, too.

We have the worst defense we've had since the 80's and our attacking midfielders are awful (Dempsey is too old to do what he does against top-level opposition as is Donovan) and Jozy is woefully out of form. And AJ is tired too. We're good to allow a few goals a game and I don't see us scoring nearly that many.

It'll take a miracle for us to get out of the group stage. Recognizing that doesn't make us bad fans.
NO ONE GIVES A SHIT ABOUT WHAT LINEUP YOU USE IN FIFA
richieJkulesaNY
Post #82
Thursday April 17, 2014 1:34pm

Joined Jun 2012
Total Posts: 942
Original post from dolcem

Not sure what your first sentence is referring to...

If Bradley is playing as a box-to-box than there isn't a hole in the midfield (because he's tracking back on defense). If we have someone playing as a #10 in a 4-4-2 diamond (with wingers), as some posters here are suggesting, than yes, there is a hole in the midfield. Against Mexico, Bradley was playing far forward and Dempsey was playing more as a second striker than as a CAM, and when they woke up in the second half they exploited the massive amounts of space in the middle of the pitch. Of course the 8 will play farther forward than the 6 but it was too much that game. And at the end when Dempsey started to drop back a bit more and combine with the other mids we looked better. The 4-5-1 suits us best.

And no way Cameron plays as a DM for us. He's desperately needed in defense and he doesn't have enough experience playing there. And it's too late for him to start. But that's a different topic.


Completely agree we cannot play a 4-4-2 diamond like we did against Mexico. I said the day after that game to immediately forget this game because we wouldnt be able to pull that off in our group. If Mexico actually cared in the first half, they would of figured it out a lot sooner.

Unfortunately, because of that first half, people still think guys like Beckerman, Davis and Wondolowski can contribute in the World Cup. But thats another topic...

My point about the formations/tactics is that just because a team lines up a certain way on paper, doesnt mean that dictates what role he plays on the field. When I look at formation, i see how the team is going to defend. Knowing this team, and having some kind of sense of how some posters think, they throw out formations based on what our players will do offensively. I think most people get the #6, #8, and #10(if you can call it that) roles on this squad. How they line them up is irrelevant, offensively speaking.

I think this team is geared towards a 4-4-1-1. If we decide to play a higher line of defense, maybe we see the 4-2-3-1.

While I think Cameron is best suited as a DCM, which, FWIW, was also pointed out by the broadcasters of Stokes game last weekend, I dont think he'll play there in the World Cup. But if you think about it, he also wasnt playing DCM when he was asked to against Panama, and we saw the best 90 minute central midfield performance in Klinsmanns tenure. I know the retort to this is the Costa Rica game, but he was paired with Jones and it was an emergency start, meaning he wasnt prepared tactically. Its also doesnt mean much to me because we never, ever play well in Costa Rica. I still dont understand why everybody thinks hes the answer at CB because if you look back at the few games he did play there, he was as shaky as Gonzo.

hamsamwich
Post #83
Thursday April 17, 2014 2:11pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 513
So then Navi- you would not play a high line and try and press and win the game?? What would be your recipe for success against Ghana then??

Dolcem, I'm sort of with you-- I've been to three world cups and buddy I must say the competition has never been better. Of course there's a good chance we will lose to the highly ranked Germans and Portugal with the best player in the tournament, but again, do you not have any confidence in this game v Ghana??

Agreed, Richie, Cameron has looked shaky (at CB, RB, and CDM) but then outside of Bradley, who hasn't looked shaky on our team. I've said a hundred times who cares about Stoke, its the USMNT performances that matter, but again, people feel like Cameron deserves to start, but I'm not sure why. As a USMNT fan, I dont value Stoke any more than I do Kansas City or Los Angeles, and as described a thousand times on this site, the EPL and their style of place are NOT like the international game really.

richieJkulesaNY
Post #84
Thursday April 17, 2014 3:17pm

Joined Jun 2012
Total Posts: 942
Original post from hamsamwich
Agreed, Richie, Cameron has looked shaky (at CB, RB, and CDM) but then outside of Bradley, who hasn't looked shaky on our team. I've said a hundred times who cares about Stoke, its the USMNT performances that matter, but again, people feel like Cameron deserves to start, but I'm not sure why. As a USMNT fan, I dont value Stoke any more than I do Kansas City or Los Angeles, and as described a thousand times on this site, the EPL and their style of place are NOT like the international game really.


The only think I will say about players in Europe, especially since its late in the season for them, is the intensity of their games is much higher than those playing in MLS. I've watched at least 2 games a week, one always being RBNY, and the other is whatever is on NBCSN, and it feels like everybody is on cruise contol right now. The only intense game I saw was the Porland/Seattle 4-4 game. Just to be clear, i know the players arent just coasting through these games, but the intensity isnt like it is in Europe. This is why I hold even the English Championship in higher regard than MLS, because Danny Williams is in a dogfight for that last promotional playoff spot. We know about the money that comes along with that spot, but for most of us, we dont know the half of it when it comes to the pressue thats on them in these games. There is extremely little room for error. I feel that kind of intensity goes a long way for a player trying to make the World Cup.

And for anybody that thinks that the mid table BPL teams, like Stoke, dont have anything to play for, you're out of your mind if you dont think they are playing for their jobs next year. Those mid table teams need to improve one way or another.

navi8132
Post #85
Thursday April 17, 2014 3:42pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 1,942
We should bunker and counter strategically. All 3 games. Yes even Ghana (but bunkering to less extent).

hamsamwich
Post #86
Thursday April 17, 2014 6:36pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 513
Let me be clear Richie I do think the Championship is better than MLS, but the style of play they use in England is not really what is going to be played at the World Cup. I mean it makes me happy that Cameron does well instead of poorly, but I dont grant him a starting spot on the roster just because of the league he plays in. I'm a huge fan of Danny Williams, dont misunderstand what I'm saying here.

Thank you Navi for your response. I hope to not see that against Ghana but like you I will be waving my red white and blue proudly no matter the setup. But wasn't Klinsmann hired for this reason, to give us the impetus to attack teams and try and control play??

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #87
Thursday April 17, 2014 6:53pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 5,025
Original post from dolcem

How many World Cups have you been to? Optimism has nothing to do with being a fan. Germany is the second best team in the world and Portugal is probably the third best in Europe and the fifth best in the world (yes, they suck in qualifying as they always do, but every tournament they're very good). They are on a different planet than we are. And Ghana is better, too.

We have the worst defense we've had since the 80's and our attacking midfielders are awful (Dempsey is too old to do what he does against top-level opposition as is Donovan) and Jozy is woefully out of form. And AJ is tired too. We're good to allow a few goals a game and I don't see us scoring nearly that many.

It'll take a miracle for us to get out of the group stage. Recognizing that doesn't make us bad fans.


We will see what happens. And I don't have your negative sentiments. Opinion is not fact.

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #88
Thursday April 17, 2014 7:08pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 5,025
Original post from stone88

Go ahead and laugh 2tone, but this is the weakest USMNT Defense in recent history! In 2002 we had Pope and Sanneh in their prime and in 2010 we had Boca and Dolo in their prime, all hall of fame USMNT Defenders. Who are the Hall of Fame defenders this go around?? Nobody! We have too many Jimmy Conrad type defenders and not enough Eddie Popes or Steve Cherundolos. That is what makes me lose the most faith.

Hell, in 2006 we even had Dolo, Boca and Pope, but got put into a group of death and got pummeled.

However, the Ghana game is a toss up IMO, and we could possibly get an upset against Portugal or Germany, but I'm going to temper my expectations. I just hope we show well being that this is probably going to be the most watched world cup EVER in the US.


I am laughing. It's funny how people forget how horrible that 2010 defense was. Stats show that this current defense is better than the 2010 defense.

navi8132
Post #89
Thursday April 17, 2014 7:10pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 1,942
Stats....are you Rain now?

Chrisou101
Post #90
Thursday April 17, 2014 7:20pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 561
Stats aside this cycle's defense is better than last cycle. Our defenders last cycle were extremely slow and can't play out of the back much, this cycle we have Besler who is excellent at reading and intercepting passes(something our defenders can't do in the past)and Gonzo(prone to errors) has gotten better at playing out of the back and is a good destroyer in the air. Stats don't tell the whole story, it's what we see and observe that does. Something that rain never understands. If we are going to get out of our group we have to go toe to toe with our opponents instead of playing bunker ball. Germany is beatable, Portugal is beatable, hell even Ghana is beatable. No team is ever invincible.

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