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2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #61
Monday March 10, 2014 4:51am

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 10,605
Not true about Brooks. He was very much in the German U-21 set-up. He chose the USA. Brooks is still rated as a young very promising Bundesliga CB, and the German U-21 coach was pissed when he chose the USA.

MSantoine
Post #62
Monday March 10, 2014 5:06pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,723
Original post from Tiger

There are good reasons why Jones, Johnson, Williams, Chandler, Brooks et. al are not part of the German NT program. Bottom line is that they were not good enough to make the grade, and only then took their US options as fall backs.
.


I have to disagree with this. As previously stated Brooks was wanted by Germany as recent as this past october or november. Jones played senior matches for Germany, just never cap tied due to being the 24th-25th guy and then getting injured. Chandler was getting looks from Germany too, remember he removed himself from the 2011 gold cup to not get cap tied. And Fab played for Germany's U17 through U21 teams. While you can say none of them would have been world cup starters for Germany you cant say they werent in their plans

Tiger
Post #63
Monday March 10, 2014 6:12pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 94
My statement was that these players were ultimately evaluated and determined to not be potential German NT players. I did not state that they were not at some point in time under consideration as potential German NT players. However, that time has long since passed.

Consistent with essentially having washed out of the German NT program, none of the German American contingent of players is currently making the grade at a top level German club. Fabian Johnson looks to step up some with his future move to Gladbach.

Time will tell how well that move goes, as well as how well Gladbach fares in the league.

I can't speak to what the German U-21 coach may have publicly said regarding Brooks choosing to seek to play for the US NT program. Whatever public spin there may have been, it stands to reason that if the senior German NT, i.e. Loewe, saw true potential for Brooks to contend for the senior German NT in future, Loewe would have made the push to lock him up for Germany.

Who knows, Brooks may ultimately prove he is of a caliber that could play for Germany. To date, the powers that be believe and have chosen otherwise.

As you indicated, Jones, under even the rosiest of scenarios for him, would never have amounted to more than a potentially peripheral player for Germany. Who would he have displaced and moved out of the German NT roster over the last ten years to present?

The circumstances for each player are individual, but the end result is the same, none were deemed ultimately good enough to make the grade to play for Germany. Hence, ultimately why they are seeking to play for the US.

It is not a knock on their motivations to play for the US, just a realistic assessment of their capabilities.

Kamphgruppe
Michigan
Post #64
Monday March 10, 2014 7:06pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 1,126
The posters on this site know so little about the players. We don't watch every game they play. We probably don't get to see them practice at all. We know very little about their true motivation, mental toughness, professionalism, attitude, true potential, etc. Yet so many posters here believe they know more about judging talent and who should play then our national team coach. In fact, our system is broken because England capped a young guy and we have not. I am going to trust that we hired the best person we could to coach and throw my support behind our team.

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #65
Monday March 10, 2014 7:56pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 10,605
Original post from Tiger

My statement was that these players were ultimately evaluated and determined to not be potential German NT players. I did not state that they were not at some point in time under consideration as potential German NT players. However, that time has long since passed.

Consistent with essentially having washed out of the German NT program, none of the German American contingent of players is currently making the grade at a top level German club. Fabian Johnson looks to step up some with his future move to Gladbach.

Time will tell how well that move goes, as well as how well Gladbach fares in the league.

I can't speak to what the German U-21 coach may have publicly said regarding Brooks choosing to seek to play for the US NT program. Whatever public spin there may have been, it stands to reason that if the senior German NT, i.e. Loewe, saw true potential for Brooks to contend for the senior German NT in future, Loewe would have made the push to lock him up for Germany.

Who knows, Brooks may ultimately prove he is of a caliber that could play for Germany. To date, the powers that be believe and have chosen otherwise.

As you indicated, Jones, under even the rosiest of scenarios for him, would never have amounted to more than a potentially peripheral player for Germany. Who would he have displaced and moved out of the German NT roster over the last ten years to present?

The circumstances for each player are individual, but the end result is the same, none were deemed ultimately good enough to make the grade to play for Germany. Hence, ultimately why they are seeking to play for the US.

It is not a knock on their motivations to play for the US, just a realistic assessment of their capabilities.


Why would Germany cap tie Brooks in this WC cycle when they have more than enough experienced CB's right now? All you need to know about his potential is the fact the German U21 program were mad he chose the USA and that Bayern Munich thought so highly about him that they tried to wrestle him away from Hertha Berlin two years ago. Brooks has all of the potential, but doesn't have the experience. Germany wasn't going to try to cap tie him because Germany feels they don't need to cap tie young promising players. Germany not unlike most of the big footballing nations aren't concerned about the potential of Dual nationals not choosing Germany. Germany can afford to wait until their prospects have enough experience to back up their talent before calling them up for National team duty.

That's exactly why Germany isn't trying to cap tie Julian Green at the senior level. They can wait, and they no it.

blaise213
Post #66
Monday March 10, 2014 11:12pm

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 3,255
"So why oh why did US boss Jurgen Klinsmann subject Cameron to double training sessions, then and a full 90 minutes in a largely meaningless friendly against Ukraine in Cyprus last week?

Read more: http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/Stoke-City-Ext...

---------------------------

LOL, because Klinsmann doesn't understand the meaning of a friendly!

MSantoine
Post #67
Monday March 10, 2014 11:31pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,723
Original post from Tiger

My statement was that these players were ultimately evaluated and determined to not be potential German NT players. I did not state that they were not at some point in time under consideration as potential German NT players. However, that time has long since passed.

Consistent with essentially having washed out of the German NT program, none of the German American contingent of players is currently making the grade at a top level German club. Fabian Johnson looks to step up some with his future move to Gladbach.

Time will tell how well that move goes, as well as how well Gladbach fares in the league.

I can't speak to what the German U-21 coach may have publicly said regarding Brooks choosing to seek to play for the US NT program. Whatever public spin there may have been, it stands to reason that if the senior German NT, i.e. Loewe, saw true potential for Brooks to contend for the senior German NT in future, Loewe would have made the push to lock him up for Germany.

Who knows, Brooks may ultimately prove he is of a caliber that could play for Germany. To date, the powers that be believe and have chosen otherwise.

As you indicated, Jones, under even the rosiest of scenarios for him, would never have amounted to more than a potentially peripheral player for Germany. Who would he have displaced and moved out of the German NT roster over the last ten years to present?

The circumstances for each player are individual, but the end result is the same, none were deemed ultimately good enough to make the grade to play for Germany. Hence, ultimately why they are seeking to play for the US.

It is not a knock on their motivations to play for the US, just a realistic assessment of their capabilities.


So jones scoring in a UCL quarterfinal isn't succeeding. Schalke has been to the UCL for many years in a row. Fab and brooks we're wanted by many top teams. I'd bet chandler will be getting a transfer up next year too. Also Boyd was on the payroll for Dortmund two years ago

Tiger
Post #68
Tuesday March 11, 2014 2:40am

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 94
@2tone, precisely the point. Germany does not need to cap tie anyone based on potential alone. They, and other top tier national sides call players in based on actual performance already demonstrated.

If Germany 'wanted' Brooks, Loewe would not necessarily have to cap tie him. If Brooks had real potential to play for Germany, that fact would have been communicated to him. That communication would in all probability have been sufficient assurance for Brooks to bide his time and continue to work for the opportunity to advance at club level and possibly play for Germany some day.

It is cruel to give false hope. In all likelihood, it was communicated to Brooks, or was self evident to those advising him, that he had at the very best a very outside shot at figuring into the German NT picture, ever. Therefore, if he wanted to play international football, throwing in with the US would be a much more certain proposition.

@Santoine. The point being made was that these German American players were at some point evaluated as not being potential German NT squad members, much less starters as you stated. Once their realistic options became clear, the USNT was their only real possibility.

No one said Jones didn't achieve starting for a UCL side. What was said was that none of the German American players presently in the mix for the USMNT is currently playing for a top tier Bundesliga club, or, for that matter, any other major league top tier club.

The original point was that these players are not 'choosing' playing for the US over playing for Germany. They are playing for the US by default. Playing for Germany was not an option for them when they 'chose' the US, and was by all indications not likely to be an option going forward due to the fact that better players were already ahead of them in the food chain, with more arriving all the time.

That is the level of competition for NT's in Germany, Spain, Holland, Italy, France, Brazil, Argentina. That is the level the US has to aspire to in order to compete with those nations. That is why even a player of Diego Costa's caliber plays for Spain instead of Brazil; because that is where the opportunity is presented.

dolcem
Post #69
Tuesday March 11, 2014 5:01am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,805
Original post from Kamphgruppe

The posters on this site know so little about the players. We don't watch every game they play. We probably don't get to see them practice at all. We know very little about their true motivation, mental toughness, professionalism, attitude, true potential, etc. Yet so many posters here believe they know more about judging talent and who should play then our national team coach. In fact, our system is broken because England capped a young guy and we have not. I am going to trust that we hired the best person we could to coach and throw my support behind our team.


+1000. The armchair coaching is out of control here, and it's one of the reasons I don't post here anymore. It's one thing to do it for fun but the people on this forum actually think their opinions are qualified and get really emotionally invested in them. Some actually think they could coach the team. We as fans know very little about the players, coaches, and the training the team undergoes. I, for one, will be seriously depressed if Zusi plays against Portugal or Germany, but I'm not going to go on a rampage about it and spam the forum and call for the coach's head because he didn't choose the player I wanted. My guess is that Zusi is a locker room leader and an outstanding professional (which is, more or less, what I've heard). But the point is, I don't know and neither do any of you. Even the journalists are a big step away from really knowing what's going on, and other than Bshredder, we don't have any of those here.
GET A CLUB TEAM
Tiger
Post #70
Tuesday March 11, 2014 4:00pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 94
Also to 2tone. It is highly implausible that Hertha Berlin could out bid or out maneuver Bayern for any player if Bayern actually really wanted that player.

The_Footballer
Post #71
Tuesday March 11, 2014 4:54pm

Joined Nov 2013
Total Posts: 29
Original post from Tiger

Also to 2tone. It is highly implausible that Hertha Berlin could out bid or out maneuver Bayern for any player if Bayern actually really wanted that player.


Here's an interesting scouting report on JAB from Sky Sports last year: http://www1.skysports.com/news/18232/8631069/

He is/was definitely considered a legit prospect. Also, it's mentioned in that article that Bayern attempted to buy him while he was still with Hertha's 2nd team, but JAB himself turned down the move.

To anyone who doesn't read the article, as of April last year they rate JAB as a 60/80. By their key, 51-60= great prospect, and 61-70= on his way to the top. I've never looked at scouting reports on this site before, so I dunno if they tend to be too generous/strict, but that seems like a good sign

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #72
Tuesday March 11, 2014 5:02pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 10,605
Original post from Tiger

Also to 2tone. It is highly implausible that Hertha Berlin could out bid or out maneuver Bayern for any player if Bayern actually really wanted that player.


Just do some research. JAB was the one that turned down the move and stayed with Hertha. It was all over the German news a couple of years ago.

Also Germany "wanted" Brooks at the U-21 level. He opted to play for the USA. Why would Lowe assure anyone about the future when Lowe won't be the Germany coach in the future? Anyways this is a moot argument because Brooks "chose" the USA.

TheTruth
Post #73
Wednesday March 12, 2014 12:49am

Joined Dec 2013
Total Posts: 954
Original post from dolcem

+1000. The armchair coaching is out of control here, and it's one of the reasons I don't post here anymore. It's one thing to do it for fun but the people on this forum actually think their opinions are qualified and get really emotionally invested in them. Some actually think they could coach the team. We as fans know very little about the players, coaches, and the training the team undergoes. I, for one, will be seriously depressed if Zusi plays against Portugal or Germany, but I'm not going to go on a rampage about it and spam the forum and call for the coach's head because he didn't choose the player I wanted. My guess is that Zusi is a locker room leader and an outstanding professional (which is, more or less, what I've heard). But the point is, I don't know and neither do any of you. Even the journalists are a big step away from really knowing what's going on, and other than Bshredder, we don't have any of those here.


Yeah +1 to both of these. Tiger is talking out of his ass.

Maybe Klinsy gave the quid pro quo to Brooks. Maybe he didn't. Who knows. But to say Germany was not interested in Brooks when he made the switch is assanine. And to say that about Jones is even more laughable since he actually played for the German senior team.

Tiger
Post #74
Wednesday March 12, 2014 3:48am

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 94
I didn't say Germany never had any interest, just that ultimately Germany was not that interested or they would have made more effort to keep Brooks.

As for Jones, what's your point? If you are trying to claim he turned down Germany for the US, to paraphrase your parlance, it is you ("The Truth") that is talking out of your posterior. That is the truth.

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