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dstones77
Hagerstown, MD
Post #46
Friday March 7, 2014 3:56pm

Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts: 216
Original post from 2tone

Green has talent, but no one knows how he will play in a senior national team environment.

People said we needed Gatt. Then he plays a decent first cap and everyone crapped on him because he made a few mistakes.

Point being that fans expect to much from a talented young player.

I still think Gatt can be a very good player at the international level.

I have no idea if Green will be until he A. he becomes a true first team player for a Bundesliga team be it Munich or another Bundesliga team and B. commits to a country.

People will point to his form for Bayern Munich II, but remember Boyd's goal scoring form was tremendous for Borussia Dortmund II and everyone talked him up. Boyd has yet to really grab a foot hold in the USMNT.

Green still has a lot of time on his side, and I will be a little shocked if he makes that decision to play for the USMNT before the 2014 WC.

To put all hopes on a kid for 2014 that hasn't played first team soccer regularly and hasn't made a decision about his international future, is a bit pre-mature.

There is quite a bit of talented attacking youngsters coming up for the next cycle e.g. Arriola, Holmes, Zardes, Rubin, Lynden Gooch, Flores, Rowe, Gatt, Gyau, Gil, Salgado, Rodriguez, Haji Wright, Chris Pulisic, Kyle and Kris Scott, Romain Gall, Sonora not to mention Fagundez and Nagbe who are both in the process of getting US citizenship. If Green gets added then he will boost that attacking crop. It's not unthinkable that the USMNT may be considered a dark horse in the 2018 WC. I mean if you look at the attacking players corps for 2018 it is has the potential to be very talented.

People need to realize that the 2014 WC cycle was a transition one. A lot of players hitting their 30's and not enough young established talent was coming up for this cycle.

I will be happy if the USMNT plays well at the WC, and gives each and every team a real fight. If they don't make it out of the group stage then so be it. As long as they play to their best ability, then that is all you can ask for.


probably the most honest, levelheaded, realist on this site is 2tone. Kudos to everyone of your posts. this is one of the best things I've read.
I honestly don't think we will win 1 game at the World Cup. Maybe 2 draws at best. but I will root for us to win it all like I always do. We are not that good of a team, in a tough tough group. It's a transition cycle for sure and I do agree we should have probably given some younger guys more looks. and I do agree we should take younger future players to this tournament instead of Brad davis and Wondo ect. I'm also a firm believer we should give Brooks and Julian Green those spots and Cap-tie them. Even if they live up to half of their potential they're still better than taking a MLS vet IMO if we're looking at the future plus I don't want to lose another Rossi.

navi8132
New York
Post #47
Friday March 7, 2014 5:23pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 3,122
2tone: I don't think a single person on this forum gave up on Gatt because of mistakes in his USMNT minutes. They gave up on him after paying more attention to his club games and seeing that he doesn't have much technical ability.

navi8132
New York
Post #48
Friday March 7, 2014 5:33pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 3,122
The issue with Green is that we are so desperate to get some wide play. But he doesn't even get utilized as a true winger on Munich II.

MSantoine
Post #49
Friday March 7, 2014 6:27pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,723
Original post from dstones77

probably the most honest, levelheaded, realist on this site is 2tone. Kudos to everyone of your posts. this is one of the best things I've read.
I honestly don't think we will win 1 game at the World Cup. Maybe 2 draws at best. but I will root for us to win it all like I always do. We are not that good of a team, in a tough tough group. It's a transition cycle for sure and I do agree we should have probably given some younger guys more looks. and I do agree we should take younger future players to this tournament instead of Brad davis and Wondo ect. I'm also a firm believer we should give Brooks and Julian Green those spots and Cap-tie them. Even if they live up to half of their potential they're still better than taking a MLS vet IMO if we're looking at the future plus I don't want to lose another Rossi.


Exactly. I will hope US wins all their games and makes a deep run. But if you asking me to bet my mortgage on how many points they get in the group stage I'd bet on 0 or 1 and have a tough time deciding.

snipes87
Cleveland, Ohio
Post #50
Friday March 7, 2014 6:34pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 894
Loss-Draw-Loss seems realistic to me. Playing well in all 3 with that final record won't be a failure in my eyes.
If you don't love it, leave it, USA #1
TheTruth
Post #51
Friday March 7, 2014 6:50pm

Joined Dec 2013
Total Posts: 954
A lot of nonsense in this thread. Some of you guys are being sloppy with your thinking. You can't be for Gil and then against EJ & Wondo. That's a false choice. If your for Gil you need to pick getting rid of Lando, Dempsey, Bedoya, Zusi, Mix, Sacha. OK, so you take Gil and dump Sacha. So what, what do you accomplish?
OK, what about Yedlin vs. Evans? They both play for the same team. You don't think Klinsy has talked to Sigi Schmitt about them? And Chandler is much more accomplished so he'd get the call before Yedlin.

And my guess is that the quid pro quo has been offered to Green. Which is the right decision IMO. He's the best young player of the group.

Never a big fan of just bagging a WC and going w/ young players w/ an eye on the next cycle. One opportunity every 4 years is way to valuable to waste in some dream of glory in the future. Do every thing you can for that one moment every 4 years. If we weren't in the group of death we'd actually have a good chance of advancing, w/ a team IMO that is only about as good as 4 years ago.

dstones77
Hagerstown, MD
Post #52
Friday March 7, 2014 7:49pm

Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts: 216
I just hope we can all agree that Green no matter where he plays should be offered a spot no matter what. Sorry to the bubble players I respect every one of them, but we can't make the mistakes we have in the past with dual nationals. And if he decides he doesn't want to play with us, I'd respect that. As long as the offer was given

MSantoine
Post #53
Friday March 7, 2014 8:04pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,723
Original post from TheTruth

A lot of nonsense in this thread. Some of you guys are being sloppy with your thinking. You can't be for Gil and then against EJ & Wondo. That's a false choice. If your for Gil you need to pick getting rid of Lando, Dempsey, Bedoya, Zusi, Mix, Sacha. OK, so you take Gil and dump Sacha. So what, what do you accomplish?
OK, what about Yedlin vs. Evans? They both play for the same team. You don't think Klinsy has talked to Sigi Schmitt about them? And Chandler is much more accomplished so he'd get the call before Yedlin.


Say you pick Yedlin, Agudelo, Brooks, Williams, & Gil and dump Evans, EJ, Goodson, Jones, & Sacha. Are we worse off in the world cup this year? Do you expect big things from the guys I took off? At any point in this world cup or the next gold cup do you see us worse off with theguys I listed then the ones removed? Do our chances for victory change drastically? I say no.

Now come 2017 & 2018 if Yedlin, Gil, Brooks, et al have been getting caps and minutes since 2013/2014 would that make us a better team in 2018 then if they dont get there first caps until 2015/2016? Doesnt this pretty much prove that its better for USSF as a whole to start bringing these young guys in? Again do you not think it helped Dolo's career being on the bench in South Korea in '02? How about Dempsey in '06? Heyduk & Pope in '98?

navi8132
New York
Post #54
Friday March 7, 2014 8:20pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 3,122
These delusions of younger players being better than the older established players......they are desperation thoughts. There is NO CAVALRY coming to save the village.

cudevil
Post #55
Friday March 7, 2014 11:57pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,050
Original post from MSantoine

Say you pick Yedlin, Agudelo, Brooks, Williams, & Gil and dump Evans, EJ, Goodson, Jones, & Sacha. Are we worse off in the world cup this year? Do you expect big things from the guys I took off? At any point in this world cup or the next gold cup do you see us worse off with theguys I listed then the ones removed? Do our chances for victory change drastically? I say no.

Now come 2017 & 2018 if Yedlin, Gil, Brooks, et al have been getting caps and minutes since 2013/2014 would that make us a better team in 2018 then if they dont get there first caps until 2015/2016? Doesnt this pretty much prove that its better for USSF as a whole to start bringing these young guys in? Again do you not think it helped Dolo's career being on the bench in South Korea in '02? How about Dempsey in '06? Heyduk & Pope in '98?


Seeing that Goodson may be a starter in this WC, as will Jones, then absolutely I see us being worse off this WC (dramatically so) if you subbed in Brooks and Gil.

Moreover, the Williams inclusion in this discussion is odd. JK has given him opportunities. He went through a very poor run in form but appears to be working his way back into the picture.

TheTruth
Post #56
Saturday March 8, 2014 12:36am

Joined Dec 2013
Total Posts: 954
Original post from MSantoine

Say you pick Yedlin, Agudelo, Brooks, Williams, & Gil and dump Evans, EJ, Goodson, Jones, & Sacha. Are we worse off in the world cup this year? Do you expect big things from the guys I took off? At any point in this world cup or the next gold cup do you see us worse off with theguys I listed then the ones removed? Do our chances for victory change drastically? I say no.

Now come 2017 & 2018 if Yedlin, Gil, Brooks, et al have been getting caps and minutes since 2013/2014 would that make us a better team in 2018 then if they dont get there first caps until 2015/2016? Doesnt this pretty much prove that its better for USSF as a whole to start bringing these young guys in? Again do you not think it helped Dolo's career being on the bench in South Korea in '02? How about Dempsey in '06? Heyduk & Pope in '98?


Of course it helps anyone's career to be in WC qualifiers and play in the WC. Why would you ever pose this as a question that anyone would argue?

Of your specific suggestions, ALL of those guys are fringe players except Jones. So, take out Jones, and I agree, little change to our chances in Brazil. Would it help Gil to ride the bench in Brazil vs. play a few games for RSL? I doubt it, but I guess you think so. OK, then you say, 'well we need to get Gil, etc. involved in qualifiers. . ." Maybe, I'm a pussy, but I have a lot of respect for the qualification process, so I wouldn't want to do too much experimentation w/ unproven youngsters.

You think the USSF is crap? Think about Mexico. We only saved them from total shame w/ a random, last minute goal. Oh, wait, but isn't Mexico so powerful in the youth ranks? Why don't they just bring their Olympic team to the qualifiers?

MSantoine
Post #57
Saturday March 8, 2014 1:30am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,723
Original post from TheTruth

Of course it helps anyone's career to be in WC qualifiers and play in the WC. Why would you ever pose this as a question that anyone would argue?

Of your specific suggestions, ALL of those guys are fringe players except Jones. So, take out Jones, and I agree, little change to our chances in Brazil. Would it help Gil to ride the bench in Brazil vs. play a few games for RSL? I doubt it, but I guess you think so. OK, then you say, 'well we need to get Gil, etc. involved in qualifiers. . ." Maybe, I'm a pussy, but I have a lot of respect for the qualification process, so I wouldn't want to do too much experimentation w/ unproven youngsters.

You think the USSF is crap? Think about Mexico. We only saved them from total shame w/ a random, last minute goal. Oh, wait, but isn't Mexico so powerful in the youth ranks? Why don't they just bring their Olympic team to the qualifiers?


As much as mexico has been a joke this calendar year I think everyone would trade there last 3 cycles vs ours. We've both done about the same in World Cup and gold cups. But look how many players mexico sent to top euro teams. Chichatiro would be our highest profile player. As would vela, dos santos, Aquino, Herrera, and you could make the argument for the club America guys too. If USA had someone playing for Man U they'd be talked about like the greatest us player ever. Even with the struggles in qualifying if you polled the other 30 teams I'd bet at least 20 of them would rather play USA then Mexico.

dfw_fan
DfW
Post #58
Saturday March 8, 2014 2:59am

Joined Apr 2013
Total Posts: 999
Original post from MSantoine

As much as mexico has been a joke this calendar year I think everyone would trade there last 3 cycles vs ours. We've both done about the same in World Cup and gold cups. But look how many players mexico sent to top euro teams. Chichatiro would be our highest profile player. As would vela, dos santos, Aquino, Herrera, and you could make the argument for the club America guys too. If USA had someone playing for Man U they'd be talked about like the greatest us player ever. Even with the struggles in qualifying if you polled the other 30 teams I'd bet at least 20 of them would rather play USA then Mexico.


Speak for yourself, you are delusional... Get off those drugs.

Chrisou101
Post #59
Saturday March 8, 2014 6:15am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 626
Only teams that are desperate would dump their old players for young and raw players. Are we really that desperate? Not really. Jurgen's philosophy is to connect the youth teams with the senior team and I'm starting to see that connection. It's not great but there's progress. Hell I was watching the usmnt practice at LA, both Tab Ramos and Richie Williams took part as assistant coaches with JK. I mean seriously, what are we Canada?! They dump all their veterans and are bringing in teenagers. How pathetic is that.

Tiger
Post #60
Monday March 10, 2014 3:59am

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 94
Some good points raised all around by various posters. Particularly agree that qualifying for a WC is such a hard won, arduous and long term process that it would be foolish to throw young, essentially unproven players into battle as our best option going forward.

They would not only be extremely unlikely to do better than our veterans, but they would also likely emerge shell shocked and requiring rehabilitation from the trauma of the experience.

Julian Green, on paper at least, looks to be, for the time being, the best current potential US prospect. Even so, he has a steep club climb to make over the next two to three years. In addition to continuing to improve and develop his technical and tactical acumen, he likely also needs to bulk up a bit in order to be able to make the grade at Bayern. It all remains to be determined and will play out over the next several years.

If he washes out at Bayern, he will also very likely not be part of the German NT picture.

There are good reasons why Jones, Johnson, Williams, Chandler, Brooks et. al are not part of the German NT program. Bottom line is that they were not good enough to make the grade, and only then took their US options as fall backs.

At present, our veterans, lacking in whatever ways they may, clearly give the US the best opportunity to compete in Brazil. It may be good to sprinkle into the squad one or maybe even two or three of the very best youth prospects, if they are even or very close to even with veterans for those positions, and as such are capable of performing and delivering if called upon in reserve.

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