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dolcem
Post #511
Thursday June 25, 2015 9:11pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,805
Guys please stop with the discrimination arguments. It's just plain silly. These managers are under extreme amount of pressure and do whatever it takes to win. They aren't going to do anything to hurt their chances because of "anti-Americanism." If anything, having Americans on the team is a bonus (shirt sales), and let's also not forget that Villa's owner is American. Maybe Sherwood doesn't rate Guzan. It happens. It doesn't mean he is a prejudiced person. If you think that European scouts don't rate the MLS highly enough, that's one argument, but if you think that European coaches are actually putting worse players on the field because they disagree with American foreign policy or something like that, you come off as delusional.

Original post from mmee

I've taken flak for suggesting this roster is stupid, but I haven't heard anyone actually defend the function of including Rimando, Davis, Zusi and Wondo.

What's the actual useful purpose of having those 4 in the mix when we could get experience for 4 other players? Yes, we don't need to blood the younger players 3 years out, but why would that hurt in comparison to bringing these 4? What are we getting??



Those players get the call-ups because they have the right attitude. It's a long way before 2018. The guys who are getting called-up now will not necessarily be a part of the 2018 squad. Klinsmann is trying to lay the foundation for his vision, and that means for competitive matches, he wants the bench players to be guys with the most heart. He doesn't want to throw those four out of the picture yet because they embody what he wants to see from the team. Once the young guys follow their example and win their place, we can get rid of the Zusis and the Wondos. But it's still early.
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TheTruth
Post #512
Thursday June 25, 2015 9:57pm

Joined Dec 2013
Total Posts: 954
I won't defend Rimando, Davis, and Wondo.

But I'll defend Zusi. I thought he acquitted himself fairly well in the WC. Not saying he's great, but he's been a solid USMNT contributor for a few years now. Do I hope we have some youngsters coming up who are better than him? Sure, but I wouldn't say that Zardes, for example, is better than Zusi at outside mid today. Yeah, yeah, I get the argument about looking to the future, but I don't have a problem at all w/ Zusi going to the Gold Cup (fairly important IMO that we bring our best 23 to maximize our chances of winning it).

joey11
Post #513
Thursday June 25, 2015 10:07pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 281
Original post from dolcem

Guys please stop with the discrimination arguments. It's just plain silly. These managers are under extreme amount of pressure and do whatever it takes to win. They aren't going to do anything to hurt their chances because of "anti-Americanism." If anything, having Americans on the team is a bonus (shirt sales), and let's also not forget that Villa's owner is American. Maybe Sherwood doesn't rate Guzan. It happens. It doesn't mean he is a prejudiced person. If you think that European scouts don't rate the MLS highly enough, that's one argument, but if you think that European coaches are actually putting worse players on the field because they disagree with American foreign policy or something like that, you come off as delusional.

Those players get the call-ups because they have the right attitude. It's a long way before 2018. The guys who are getting called-up now will not necessarily be a part of the 2018 squad. Klinsmann is trying to lay the foundation for his vision, and that means for competitive matches, he wants the bench players to be guys with the most heart. He doesn't want to throw those four out of the picture yet because they embody what he wants to see from the team. Once the young guys follow their example and win their place, we can get rid of the Zusis and the Wondos. But it's still early.

Nice argument but wrong about Europe, especially EPL. They don't discriminate but they will never rate US players over European ones it's just a mentality through the years that US isn't consider a quality soccer nation.

admsghs27
Post #514
Thursday June 25, 2015 10:53pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 6,060
My Starting 11 vs Honduras. 4-1-3-2

--- Zardes - Johansson -

- Dempsey- Bradley - Bedoya -

------- Mix ------

Fabian -- Gonzo - Brooks - Yedlin -

--- Guzan --

Subs - Altidore, Beckerman, Alvarado.

chillguy1992
Post #515
Thursday June 25, 2015 11:12pm

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 1,118
Original post from admsghs27

My Starting 11 vs Honduras. 4-1-3-2

-- Zardes - Johansson -

- Dempsey- Bradley - Bedoya -

---- Mix ---

Fabian - Gonzo - Brooks - Yedlin -

-- Guzan -

Subs - Altidore, Beckerman, Alvarado.


Mix at cdm and then Dempsey at LAM dont really make much sense I understand its honduras, but beckerman was so good in the recent frendlies at cdm. In my book at this point the CDM position is his until someone else can pass him at the depth chart or he is unable to handle international play. Also mix at cdm it just doesnt work the field opens up so much more for honduras if a guy like mix is played at the 6. Also Dempsey at LAM the left side would be exposed because Fabian Johnson likes to get forward from fullback. Plus dempsey is way more comfortable at CAM and ST then cutting inside from the wing. If Dempsey is moved back as a cam behind a forward then Zardes is out because his best position for usmnt is ST without a doubt. Yedlin is best off of the bench he isnt a 90 minute player he is an excellent supersub to be used along with zardes in the tournament

What should be done for the honduras game however I am guessing Jozy comes in for johansson.

-- Dempsey - Johansson -

Mix- - Bradley - Bedoya -

---- Beckerman ---

Fabian - Brooks - Gonzalez - Chandler -

-- Guzan -

mmee
Culver City, CA
Post #516
Thursday June 25, 2015 11:19pm

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 2,147
Original post from TheTruth

Sure, but I wouldn't say that Zardes, for example, is better than Zusi at outside mid today.


No- me neither with 2 forwards and a question of who plays RM.

It depends on the formation, though. If it's 1 fwd, putting Zardes out wide is probably more useful overall. I wouldn't claim he's half as good a crosser as Zusi.

Know Nothing
Post #517
Thursday June 25, 2015 11:57pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,781
4-3-1-2

Guzan
Chandler, Gonzalez, Brooks, FJ
Yedlin, Bradley, Bedoya
Deuce,
Zardes, Arjo

Not ideal, but it gets our best 11 on the field and in positions where they won't be stumbling over each other.

hamsamwich
Post #518
Friday June 26, 2015 1:58am

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,321
Dempsey--Altidore
Bradley
Morales, Bedoya
Beckerman
Fab, Brooks, Alvarado, Evans
Guzan

Subs: Zardes, Johansson, Mix

I'm not sure that Dempsey or Altidore is a 90' player for USA right now with the depth we have at forward. For me, it's Evans over Chandler at right back. Morales should be given the opportunity. I still think Jürgen is looking for his best 11.

MSantoine
Post #519
Friday June 26, 2015 3:20am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,723
Original post from joey11

Nice argument but wrong about Europe, especially EPL. They don't discriminate but they will never rate US players over European ones it's just a mentality through the years that US isn't consider a quality soccer nation.


The reason they don't rate Americans is that there's more failures then success stories. Look at Jozy and even lletget. Also when guys like defoe and wright Phillips leave epl or championship and dominate mls it adds to the bias.

mmee
Culver City, CA
Post #520
Friday June 26, 2015 7:58am

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 2,147
Original post from MSantoine

The reason they don't rate Americans is that there's more failures then success stories. Look at Jozy and even lletget. Also when guys like defoe and wright Phillips leave epl or championship and dominate mls it adds to the bias.


Also, it's a bit of a vicious cycle. No one can get a work permit for the EPL- a team will want one of our players and the FA will say no. It's too restrictive. The smaller the sample size, the more it seems like "none of them are ever any good".

blaise213
Post #521
Friday June 26, 2015 11:32pm

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 3,116
Damn Alexi Lalas just roasted Chris Wondolousy...

The french player missed a goal from 2 yards out to win the game and Alexi Lalas said "thats a shout out to Chris Wondlowski"

That made my day!

dolcem
Post #522
Friday June 26, 2015 11:35pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,805
Original post from joey11

Nice argument but wrong about Europe, especially EPL. They don't discriminate but they will never rate US players over European ones it's just a mentality through the years that US isn't consider a quality soccer nation.


A coach will not bench a better player because of his nationality. This does not happen. They watch the guys train week in, week out, and they put the best guys on the field. They are not going to risk losing their jobs because of some sort of prejudice. This is why Asian and African players also see the field as well.

Also, your argument is clearly flawed, because Americans do play in Europe. Almost every time an American plays, a European player is benched to make way for him (unless it's a Latin, African, or Asian player whose place is being taken).
GET A CLUB TEAM
mmee
Culver City, CA
Post #523
Saturday June 27, 2015 12:29am

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 2,147
Original post from dolcem

A coach will not bench a better player because of his nationality. This does not happen. They watch the guys train week in, week out, and they put the best guys on the field. They are not going to risk losing their jobs because of some sort of prejudice. This is why Asian and African players also see the field as well.

Also, your argument is clearly flawed, because Americans do play in Europe. Almost every time an American plays, a European player is benched to make way for him (unless it's a Latin, African, or Asian player whose place is being taken).


I'll generally agree with you, but two caveats...
it's not always easy to tell which player is better and
it's harder with players on the way up

admsghs27
Post #524
Saturday June 27, 2015 7:52pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 6,060
Yep many People will never Forget... Check out the First Video.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2015/06...

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