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hamsamwich
Post #481
Wednesday June 24, 2015 4:48pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,212
@ kamphgruppe- In some regards it's understandable as JK himself said "players need to face the criticism".

BUT- people should show some respect to the man that Wondo is. He is a true American. He didn't hide from the shouts, boos and criticism. He hasn't cried in a corner. He has rolled his sleeves up and got down to business. The American way.

Besler got embarrassed at the half way line and fell over, leading to the go ahead goal. Beasted (probably rightfully so) by Lukaku. And what he has done since then. Whined like a bitch and played poorly (by many accounts) for SKC.

So players have reacted to their failures differently. The funny thing is, Chris Wondolowski has gotten over the miss (that he missed, not you), but a bunch of trolls in the fanbase haven't. Support our guys, have some respect.

MSantoine
Post #482
Wednesday June 24, 2015 5:04pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,723
Original post from Kamphgruppe

I don't really understand all the hate for Wondo. I thought he played up to par in the WC, except he missed the goal of course. I can't think of a guy on the roster who has not missed a sitter now and then. I can recall several from Bradley. Landon Donovan had a propensity to miss them sometimes as well. Why do they always get passes and Wondo does not. Was it only because it was a big game or because you didn't agree with him on the roster. I feel if Jordan Morris missed a sitter everyone would rise to his defense, why do we throw Wondo under the bus?


One Difference is that Wondo is on the team as a poacher while the other guys you mentioned are playmakers. Landon, Dempsey, Bradley, even Morris, due more than just get in position and put it on net. Even Jozy has value for his hold up play. The only thing Wondo does with US is poach goals. He doesnt whip in crosses. He doesnt take on defenders. He doesnt make great runs.

To me Wndo missing a sitter is like a goalie letting a ball go through his legs. Landon/Bradley missing a sitter is like Brooks getting beat vs Netherlands for those goals.

Also you cant argue the fact that Wondo's miss cost the US program more than all Landon/Bradleys misses combined. He scores that goal and we are in the quarters (only done one other time in modern era), and knocked off a Euro heavy weight (never done at a world cup in modern era).

Know Nothing
Post #483
Wednesday June 24, 2015 7:37pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,725
@MSantoine - Sorry, you lost me at "Even Jozy has value for his hold up play." When you say hold up, do you mean trap the ball (or some approximation of that) and feed it to teammate or do you mean once he gets the ball he holds up play to a degree that stalls our attack?

True it is Wondo's job to score and he is supposed to be a poacher. I have heard at least one World Class defender state his amazement he was not a USMNT regular because he was difficult to mark...always moving and getting into dangerous positions.

In many ways Wondo may be the perfect foil for Deuce up top because he is slippery and keeps the D moving, opening space for Deuce to exploit.

MSantoine
Post #484
Wednesday June 24, 2015 7:53pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,723
Original post from Know Nothing

@MSantoine - Sorry, you lost me at "Even Jozy has value for his hold up play." When you say hold up, do you mean trap the ball (or some approximation of that) and feed it to teammate or do you mean once he gets the ball he holds up play to a degree that stalls our attack?

True it is Wondo's job to score and he is supposed to be a poacher. I have heard at least one World Class defender state his amazement he was not a USMNT regular because he was difficult to mark...always moving and getting into dangerous positions.

In many ways Wondo may be the perfect foil for Deuce up top because he is slippery and keeps the D moving, opening space for Deuce to exploit.


I meant hold up in a good sense (although he definitely stalls the offense at times). How many times does Jozy receive a pass with his back to the goal and either turn and rip a shot or drop it off to an oncoming Bradley/Dempsey. He also draws fouls that result in dangerous free kicks, something Wondo will never do

dolcem
Post #485
Wednesday June 24, 2015 8:19pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,805
I'm not annoyed with how old the roster is. It's too early on in the cycle to ditch the veterans in favor of the kids. What happens if we completely shake up the team and then in 2016 or 2017 these kids see a drop in form? Then who do we turn to? Klinsmann is trying to maintain an extremely competitive atmosphere in the locker room, where you're rewarded a place through hard work and dedication rather than sheer talent (eg, a good performance in a friendly). The young guys aren't going anywhere, if they continue to show they have the guts and the right attitude, they will be brought into the fold for competitive matches. But this is a Gold Cup that can qualify us for a Confederations Cup. The idea is to bring our A team and fill the bench spots with players who embody the character deserving of the stars and stripes. That way the team spirit will be perfect this tournament and the next.
GET A CLUB TEAM
admsghs27
Post #486
Wednesday June 24, 2015 8:31pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 6,060
Yeah but there are too many veterans even some that are done and have no business here. Evans, Davis, Wondo Rimando ?? even beckerman a ? mark but his recent play has been good so that's why he is there. I would of taken players like Williams, Shea, Nguyen/Felihaber, Agudelo, Morris, even Hamid over those players. They have a brighter future and can contribute down the road and is valuable experience their missing on.

Kamphgruppe
Michigan
Post #487
Wednesday June 24, 2015 8:35pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 890
Original post from dolcem

I'm not annoyed with how old the roster is. It's too early on in the cycle to ditch the veterans in favor of the kids. What happens if we completely shake up the team and then in 2016 or 2017 these kids see a drop in form? Then who do we turn to? Klinsmann is trying to maintain an extremely competitive atmosphere in the locker room, where you're rewarded a place through hard work and dedication rather than sheer talent (eg, a good performance in a friendly). The young guys aren't going anywhere, if they continue to show they have the guts and the right attitude, they will be brought into the fold for competitive matches. But this is a Gold Cup that can qualify us for a Confederations Cup. The idea is to bring our A team and fill the bench spots with players who embody the character deserving of the stars and stripes. That way the team spirit will be perfect this tournament and the next.


This roster is right in line with previous GC rosters. Average age/players over 30
got this off MLSsoccer.com Thought it was interesting with all the anger over the current roster.

2009 Mexico - 26.00 (2 players in 30s)
• 2011 Mexico - 26.16 (5 players in 30s)
• 2013 USA - 26.95 (6 players in 30s)
• 2015 USA - 26.7 (5 players in 30s)

Kamphgruppe
Michigan
Post #488
Wednesday June 24, 2015 8:43pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 890
Original post from MSantoine

One Difference is that Wondo is on the team as a poacher while the other guys you mentioned are playmakers. Landon, Dempsey, Bradley, even Morris, due more than just get in position and put it on net. Even Jozy has value for his hold up play. The only thing Wondo does with US is poach goals. He doesnt whip in crosses. He doesnt take on defenders. He doesnt make great runs.

To me Wndo missing a sitter is like a goalie letting a ball go through his legs. Landon/Bradley missing a sitter is like Brooks getting beat vs Netherlands for those goals.

Also you cant argue the fact that Wondo's miss cost the US program more than all Landon/Bradleys misses combined. He scores that goal and we are in the quarters (only done one other time in modern era), and knocked off a Euro heavy weight (never done at a world cup in modern era).


I am not really trying to compare apples to oranges here. I just think everyone misses a sitter now and then and Wondo gets so much hate for it while others get a free pass. Other than missing the shot at the WC Wondo has played well for the Nats.

admsghs27
Post #489
Wednesday June 24, 2015 8:45pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 6,060
Original post from Kamphgruppe

This roster is right in line with previous GC rosters. Average age/players over 30
got this off MLSsoccer.com Thought it was interesting with all the anger over the current roster.

2009 Mexico - 26.00 (2 players in 30s)
• 2011 Mexico - 26.16 (5 players in 30s)
• 2013 USA - 26.95 (6 players in 30s)
• 2015 USA - 26.7 (5 players in 30s)


Let's not forget JK says he will add more players after group stage, say he brings in Beasley 33, Orozco 29, Nguyen 28, Hamid 24, Morris 20, Besler 28. That will bump up the average age. But i think we are good enough to win it don't need to make all 6 changes the only ones i would like to see is Morris for Wondo, Beasley for Evans since he came out of retirement he has to be there, Davis for Nguyen, Hamid for Rimando. That's pretty much it.

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #490
Wednesday June 24, 2015 9:16pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 10,480
I really don't have a problem with the roster overall. I just think it's a missed opportunity to give Morris some big game experience ahead of Olympic qualifying.

skangles
DC
Post #491
Wednesday June 24, 2015 9:34pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 5,447
Original post from MSantoine

In theory this would be good. But in reality everytime this comes up we end up doing what we did with Brooks. People were saying we couldnt go to Brooks over Besler/Omar because he was untested. I just dont wat it to be 2017 and say things like we cant go with Morris because he's untested. Now's the time to test him out and integrate him. If its for a 15 minute appearance why not have him. Im not concerned with the choices effecting our performance in this gold cup. To me its more about this setting the table to not choose them when it matters.


Let's not forget that the incumbants in this example Omar and Besler both broke into the national team in early 2013, 1.5 years before the World Cup. I am merely suggesting that we hold off on the 2018 talk until after the Copa America next summer which gives us a full 2 years to build up to the WC.

3 years is way too early to start making roster moves in advance. The complaints about vets on this gold cup roster would be like complaining about Boca, Goodson, Dolo, Landon and Jones on the 2011 Gold Cup roster because they'd all be 32+ in Brazil.

The 2011 roster is pretty indicative of how unpredicatable 3 years can be. Bob brought a number of young players: Adu, Lichaj, Ream, Agudelo, Bradley and Jozy. Only two of which made the 2014 roster. Admittedly there was a coaching change in there but I don't buy into these age based arguments at this point.

mmee
Culver City, CA
Post #492
Wednesday June 24, 2015 9:41pm

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 2,147
Original post from coverby

So starting Robbie Findley or Ricardo Clark or a still injured Onweyu weren't weird choices?

Those are some rose colored glasses you have for Bradley.


I don't have nostalgia for Bob. Don't make this about that.
JK is a way better coach who also makes weird choices fairly frequently.

I've taken flak for suggesting this roster is stupid, but I haven't heard anyone actually defend the function of including Rimando, Davis, Zusi and Wondo.

What's the actual useful purpose of having those 4 in the mix when we could get experience for 4 other players? Yes, we don't need to blood the younger players 3 years out, but why would that hurt in comparison to bringing these 4? What are we getting??

Is Rimando better than Hamid? Is Davis so good with a restart that we'd rather have him on the field than another lefty? Is Zusi so good at crossing that we'd rather have his one-dimensional threat than someone else who can also meaningfully carry it inward? Can't Wondo be replaced by about 5 players who can make plays outside the area as well?

mmee
Culver City, CA
Post #493
Wednesday June 24, 2015 9:54pm

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 2,147
I am not suggesting that we need to set our WC2018 group. I'm suggesting: develop prospective WC players and cycle them in and out, not the old guard.

Nor am I suggesting that every Europe-based player should be there. I know there are cicrcumstances.

Nor am I suggesting that Wondo is a bum.

skangles
DC
Post #494
Wednesday June 24, 2015 9:58pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 5,447
Is Rimando better than Hamid?
No, but Juergen trusts him. It was always going to be Yarbrough vs Hamid. I wish Hamid would have gotten the call.

Is Davis so good with a restart that we'd rather have him on the field than another lefty?
Yes. Check out Bshredder's pieces on ASN and posts on (Ha! Like there's a search function) in the build up to last year's world cup. The arguments still hold and this time he won't have to face the best in the world.

Is Zusi so good at crossing that we'd rather have his one-dimensional threat than someone else who can also meaningfully carry it inward?
I don't know how you can be surprised by Zusi making the roster. He's been an integral part of Juergen's squad for a couple of years now.

Can't Wondo be replaced by about 5 players who can make plays outside the area as well?
He was the co-Golden boot winner last Gold Cup and he hasn't stop scoring since. His miss against Belgium will haunt him forever but he was hated long before that. The two players that bring out the most irrational responses from US fans are Wondo and Adu.

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #495
Wednesday June 24, 2015 10:19pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 10,480
Wondo missed sitters in the 2011 Gold Cup in addition to missing a sitter in the WC in a knock out game. I understand why people don't have the best temperament for him. Has he scored goals for the USMNT? Yes. Will he be a significant contributor in this Gold Cup? Probably not. So I can see why some would rather see a younger extremely promising player brought in.

But I am behind the team 100%. Maybe Wondo gets a game winner in th QF and we all repent for our earlier transgressions against Wondo.

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