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logicoverall
Post #61
Monday February 10, 2014 3:18am

Joined Feb 2013
Total Posts: 222
Original post from tylercocinas

I think we're all pretty much on the same page as far as that's concerned. Not really any point in discussing it. There's not even a viable 2nd division to support the concept


I think there's a possibility for many good teams outside the MLS in the US in the next few years, but ONLY if Garber sticks to the 24 team limit that he has set for 2020.

Why do I say that? Because I feel like if there are 7-8 cities/clubs vying for 2 MLS expansion franchises, those who do not get the new team will be the foundations of a strong second division of teams. From the talk I've heard (in varying degrees), there are many cities vying for the last two spots to make 24 after NYCFC, Orlando, and Miami make the total 22: Atlanta, San Antonio, Charlotte, Sacramento, Minneapolis, Indianapolis, St. Louis, Detroit, among others. I feel like anyone who gets left out (unless MLS expands to 30 teams) will really want a piece of the MLS action at some point. Who's to say they won't deserve it in 10-15 years?

Just because Americans love playoffs, I think 1 relegation playoff position at the bottom of the East and 1 at the bottom of the West each year would keep the MLS teams honest. The worst team in the East and the worst team in the West could play the best second division teams in a 2 game playoff for the MLS promotion. That would prevent a season like DC's 2013 from ever happening.

rjw77
Post #62
Monday February 10, 2014 4:32am

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 289
The fact of the matter is you lose a lot of money and fan support when your team is relegated. Especially in the US where MLS teams do not have the die-hard support from the fans like those in Europe and S. America where being a fan of a certain soccer club runs in your family's history and veins. It isn't a good business model and will never happen.

tylercocinas
Post #63
Monday February 10, 2014 4:58am

Joined Aug 2012
Total Posts: 1,151
Original post from logicoverall

I think there's a possibility for many good teams outside the MLS in the US in the next few years, but ONLY if Garber sticks to the 24 team limit that he has set for 2020.

Why do I say that? Because I feel like if there are 7-8 cities/clubs vying for 2 MLS expansion franchises, those who do not get the new team will be the foundations of a strong second division of teams. From the talk I've heard (in varying degrees), there are many cities vying for the last two spots to make 24 after NYCFC, Orlando, and Miami make the total 22: Atlanta, San Antonio, Charlotte, Sacramento, Minneapolis, Indianapolis, St. Louis, Detroit, among others. I feel like anyone who gets left out (unless MLS expands to 30 teams) will really want a piece of the MLS action at some point. Who's to say they won't deserve it in 10-15 years?

Just because Americans love playoffs, I think 1 relegation playoff position at the bottom of the East and 1 at the bottom of the West each year would keep the MLS teams honest. The worst team in the East and the worst team in the West could play the best second division teams in a 2 game playoff for the MLS promotion. That would prevent a season like DC's 2013 from ever happening.


It sounds really great in theory but if you look at the facts it's inconceivable that this will take place in the United States for the foreseeable future, for several reasons.

1. There's no relationship between NASL and MLS
2. Most NASL club owners lack the resources to compete in MLS
3. The quality of play in NASL is such that a "promoted" team would struggle to compete in MLS; and I don't mean this in the sense that some promoted Championship clubs struggle in the EPL. The MLS-NASL gap is much wider in my opinion.
4. NASL clubs don't have soccer specific stadia.
5. NASL has no TV deal

MSantoine
Post #64
Monday February 10, 2014 1:08pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,723
Original post from rjw77

The fact of the matter is you lose a lot of money and fan support when your team is relegated. Especially in the US where MLS teams do not have the die-hard support from the fans like those in Europe and S. America where being a fan of a certain soccer club runs in your family's history and veins. It isn't a good business model and will never happen.


Usually a promoted team has better attendence in their first year up then the team that was relegated. If you look at recent EPL history the year teams get relegated their attendence already or started to drop and the newly promoted team has a boon in attendence mainly being the excitement to return to first division. Its hard to say if the uptick in attendence would stay as most newly promoted teams get relegated right away and they are replaced with other new teams with equally excited fan bases. The main problem is you would need every team to be able to support a ~22k person stadium so if/when they are in the MLS they are ready. You cant have MLS games looking like they are played on a high school soccer field, that would kill any and all momentum.

Tiger
Post #65
Tuesday February 18, 2014 12:03am

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 94
Although what works in Europe may not always work in the US, I am not so sure that every potential team in the US has to have an ideal or close to ideal stadium in place before they can even come into existence, much less become any kind of force on the field.

When a big team plays a home and away with a lower league team in the various European domestic cup competitions, there is often real magic and always die hard passion generated for the matches by the supporters for both clubs in both legs of such competitions.

One side's lack of top stadium facilities is not a drawback.

The opportunities in those countries to play for cups against the best club sides, and players, in the land, as well as the opportunities to achieve promotion to better leagues, do much to maintain and deepen the passion for the game at all levels, from the grassroots to the top.

recycledhumans
DFWTX
Post #66
Tuesday February 18, 2014 4:30pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,467
Original post from logicoverall

Just because Americans love playoffs, I think 1 relegation playoff position at the bottom of the East and 1 at the bottom of the West each year would keep the MLS teams honest. The worst team in the East and the worst team in the West could play the best second division teams in a 2 game playoff for the MLS promotion. That would prevent a season like DC's 2013 from ever happening.


I think this is a pretty good idea. Incorporating playoffs into a relegation/promotion is a great idea and one that will allow Americans to wrap their heads around the concept.

admsghs27
Post #67
Tuesday February 18, 2014 5:20pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 6,060
Original post from recycledhumans

I think this is a pretty good idea. Incorporating playoffs into a relegation/promotion is a great idea and one that will allow Americans to wrap their heads around the concept.


Thats liga MX system.

recycledhumans
DFWTX
Post #68
Tuesday February 18, 2014 5:30pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,467
Original post from admsghs27

Thats liga MX system.


I knew about the Apertura/Clausura, wasn't aware of the playoffs...still, is there a reason why we wouldn't want to do something similar to Liga MX? A good idea is a good idea, no matter where it comes from.

MSantoine
Post #69
Tuesday February 18, 2014 5:59pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,723
Original post from admsghs27

Thats liga MX system.


Liga MX doesnt have playoffs for relegation. They use some ridiculous formula that keeps track of PPG for teams and keeps a rolling average for last 3 years I think. Every spring whoever has the lowest gets relegated. It makes it so if you are a good team you dont get relegated for one bad season. This idea could work as you'd have to think teams like LA, Seattle, etc would almost never get relegated as they are consistently in the top half of the standings. I just think the formula is to convoluted and will turn to many people off

recycledhumans
DFWTX
Post #70
Tuesday February 18, 2014 6:24pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,467
Original post from MSantoine

Liga MX doesnt have playoffs for relegation. They use some ridiculous formula that keeps track of PPG for teams and keeps a rolling average for last 3 years I think. Every spring whoever has the lowest gets relegated. It makes it so if you are a good team you dont get relegated for one bad season. This idea could work as you'd have to think teams like LA, Seattle, etc would almost never get relegated as they are consistently in the top half of the standings. I just think the formula is to convoluted and will turn to many people off


Well at least we found a more stupid alternative than adopting the European model, can't imagine many people thinking that an "automatic" relegation is a good thing. The chance to play in a playoff against a possible promotion side sounds like the best way to go about it to me.

Unless, and hear me out, we split the "lower division" into a West and East conference, the top two teams from each conference enter a 2 round playoff to see who gets promoted. No game to see if the relegation side gets to stay up, unless you're doing the 4 worst of each MLS conference and having a similar playoff series.

I think that this would be pretty smart, because as the top teams are competing for the MLS Cup, fans of the bottom teams won't be left without something to care about until next season.

skangles
DC
Post #71
Thursday March 13, 2014 5:12am

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 5,412
The signings I would like to see this summer are Beasley, Gooch and Orozco.

Beas and Gooch can easily happen if they want to return as they both will be out of contract. I cannot recall Orozco's contract length but given that Puebla are not paying their players at the moment, that might be a moot point.

I'd also gladly take Shea back if Stoke decides to give up on him.

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #72
Thursday March 13, 2014 5:21am

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 10,256
Yeah I think Shea needs to come back. He should have went to Seattle when they tried to trade for him before he went to Stoke.

I think Beas will be coming to MLS.

Orozco, maybe.

Gooch. Could be a good pick up for a team that needs a CB. Possibly NYCFC?

tylercocinas
Post #73
Thursday March 13, 2014 8:48pm

Joined Aug 2012
Total Posts: 1,151
Original post from 2tone

Yeah I think Shea needs to come back. He should have went to Seattle when they tried to trade for him before he went to Stoke.


Personally, I think Brek could benefit from a stint in the Eredivisie. From a tactical and technical standpoint being in a league that emphasizes those aspects of the game would make him a more effective, well rounded player

navi8132
New York
Post #74
Thursday March 13, 2014 9:08pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 3,067
Gooch is not a MLS caliber player. NYCFC could do loads better.

admsghs27
Post #75
Thursday March 13, 2014 9:36pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 6,060
Original post from navi8132

Gooch is not a MLS caliber player. NYCFC could do loads better.

I predict the 2 starting cbs for nycfc will be puyol and kompany.

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