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CS10
Post #16
Tuesday December 31, 2013 5:10am

Joined Feb 2013
Total Posts: 94
Original post from blaise213

African americans are different from africans. 300 years of evolution in another country. African Americans are bigger, faster and stronger than their african ancestors.

It's why you don't see any african players in any other american sports.

Look at all the African american NFL players and look at the ghana team.

I grew up playing sports around black people my whole life. Im telling you, these kids will change the game.


lol you do know evolution takes hundreds of thousands even millions of years?? The reason for that is bc they live in 3rd world countries obviously. And you really think they've heard of Amer. Football or Hockey?? Lol all they know is soccer. The usmnt is going to reflect what America looks like and who play it more often, as it should. Meaning lots of latinos, caucasians, and blacks.

Chrisou101
Post #17
Tuesday December 31, 2013 6:16am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 626
Original post from CS10

lol you do know evolution takes hundreds of thousands even millions of years?? The reason for that is bc they live in 3rd world countries obviously. And you really think they've heard of Amer. Football or Hockey?? Lol all they know is soccer. The usmnt is going to reflect what America looks like and who play it more often, as it should. Meaning lots of latinos, caucasians, and blacks.


Hey don't count us asians out just yet. lo

dfw_fan
DfW
Post #18
Tuesday December 31, 2013 6:59am

Joined Apr 2013
Total Posts: 999
Original post from CS10

About the pick up thing. Idk about where you live but in my are (Chicago) most pick up games are latino's and they display the kind of skill you'd expect in L.A. even today I played in open turf and it was all Mexicans cept for one white kid who's skills on the ball were suspect at best. Tbf he's an older college kid who I would expect much technique from but I've gone other days and seen a kid around 13, white, and was highly skilled on the ball breaking out stepovers, roulettes, and ankles all over the place. Kid was GOOD. My point is the younger generation now have soccer anywhere they wanna see and exposing them to tricks they can mimick where before it wasnt possible. I think theirs definitely a lot more kids like him else where and with time the US will play beautiful soccer soon enough


IMO, Soccer should be introduced in Elementary schools. In my kids school, they have Dribbling hawks for free(Basketball), however no emphasis on Soccer.

It will be fantastic if we can sway few kids by teaching ball skill to little kids, you dont need any fields, it can be done in the indoor gyms.
I have already seen few parents liking Soccer to American Football to avoid injuries.

tylercocinas
Post #19
Tuesday December 31, 2013 7:02am

Joined Aug 2012
Total Posts: 1,151
Original post from blaise213

African americans are different from africans. 300 years of evolution in another country. African Americans are bigger, faster and stronger than their african ancestors.

It's why you don't see any african players in any other american sports.

Look at all the African american NFL players and look at the ghana team.

I grew up playing sports around black people my whole life. Im telling you, these kids will change the game.


This is ludicrous. Do you think Black people have an extra bone that makes them jump high too ha?

Neither the sociological idea of "race" nor any false science regarding alleged genetic superiority are in any way relevant to improving soccer in the United States.

dolcem
Post #20
Tuesday December 31, 2013 7:07am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,805
Original post from skangles

How long did this take you to write?


Twenty minutes to write, about ten for the editing/bolding. I'm on vacation and the weather sucks; while I should be doing something more productive, I'm not.

Original post from navi8132

You should just become a journalist...?


Sign me up?

In all seriousness, there is only a small handful of people making a living off of sports journalism. Looking back on it, I wish I would've joined the school newspaper in college and tried to get into the field (besides soccer, politics is my main interest). At the time I decided that journalism was a dying field and that I should pick a different career. Now I'm in my mid 20's and I'm sure it's too late. Looking at some of the stuff out there (Andrea Canales, for example), I think I could do it. I think can write pretty well; it's just that when I'm posting on the internet, I can be pretty lazy.

Original post from blaise213

@Dolcem

You and 2tone need to stop working for free with your opinions and start a soccer website.

I was actually talking about this the other day to my boy at the gym.

I started playing street soccer with my brothers (2 vs 2) anytime all 4 of us are together. They are not soccer fans but they enjoy the challenge.

I went to my local 24 hour fitness and had the urge to play basketball. After being on the court for 2 minutes, I looked around and said, "Why not have a pick-up soccer game instead?" You can do exactly the same thing in a pick up soccer game as you do a pick up basketball game. All the gym needed was some nets.

We need a serious campaign with celebrity spokespersons to make this type of change. MLS should be all over Chad Ocho Cinco as a spokesperson to push the game onto the african american players.

I think the key in getting these kids into soccer should start with futsal.

You also need to change the infrastructure. We need to start building the indoor size courts at the school yards. Use the tennis court surface.


Hell, one day we might have teams playing at basketball stadiums.


EXACTLY. You know who else has a large black population that plays futsal incessantly? BRAZIL. Let's be real, the best athletes in this country are black. While athleticism is an asset in soccer, Americans overrate it, and the whole point I was making is that our technique needs to improve drastically and we need to change our style of play to one that utilizes the latter rather than the former. However, due to a variety of cultural and socio-economic factors (especially Michael Jordan), black kids in America play a lot of pick-up sports. Basketball is the most similar to soccer, and it's no surprise that you get tons of black kids with insane ballhandling skills. It's something celebrated in the pick-up culture; everyone wants to have that And1 moment. When a white guy came to the NBA (Jason Williams) that could play like that (like he's played 1000's of hours of pick-up), we called him 'white chocolate.' It's the same principle in soccer; the difference is that soccer's equivalent of 'ballhandling' is much more important...technique is everything in soccer. If you don't have a good touch, you won't be able to dribble, pass, or shoot well. And it's no coincidence that American players are very lacking in all of those traits (but have a lot of fitness, athleticism, and heart). If American black kids played soccer from a young age (like 3 or 4) the way they play basketball, we would have tons of Freddy Adu's running around. We'd have insane athletes with amazing ball skills and creativity. That's a winning combination.

Original post from bbakerxyz

Your kinda missing the point again. There's no need to "choose" between organized play and disorganized play. Obviously, the more a kid play soccer with his friends on the beach, etc. the better he'll be.

But no matter how good all of those guys at Rucker Park are, only a tiny few make it to the pros - what do you think separates those who make it and those who don't.


My point is that in ANY other country, the kids play at the beach or in the street as soon as they can walk. In the US, kids learn by joining an organized team at the age of 6. That's how I learned, and we played 11 on 11...it's unbelievable how clueless we are about this sport sometimes. And it's not just the few that make it from Rucker Park. My point is that unless EVERYONE is playing at the park, we will never have a world class player. Pick-up soccer is the ONLY way to learn the sport. And you need to start as soon as you can walk or else you'll never catch up to the foreigners.

Original post from skangles

Jerry Tarkanian.


Sort of. Once the insanely gifted kid from Rucker Park joins a youth academy taught by experts who know exactly how to develop young players (ie they learned from coaches in other countries), he has a chance at becoming a world class player.

Original post from soccerboy-1983

Your so right i play for a club team here in germany and these kids come to the games with there parents just so they can play on the practice goals we got on the other side of our goals. Rain snow it doesnt matter. they built a little like soccer field the size of a tennis court its like our skate park for these kids 3vs3 first one to five wins next team up all ages. we have this in the states but not with soccer


It's amazing when you leave American and you see the difference. In any other country, soccer is all they do from the time they can walk. In America, it's a recreational sport that kids learn from parents by joining an 11 v 11 team at the age of six. It's no wonder we went 40 years without qualifying for a World Cup in CONCACAF, and that a huge percentage of our best players are immigrants.

Original post from recycledhumans

Too true, played just about every sport under the sun out in front of the childhood home but soccer wasn't usually one of them. It wasn't exactly never seen but by far the one we played the least. Well...that and hockey, since not a lot of kids had roller blades.


This is what infuriates me. Soccer is the best sport to play pick-up, period, and it's the one sport that has to be learned through pick-up (basketball to a certain extent too, but not as much, and you learn it later). Yet hardly anyone plays pick-up soccer. Maybe the high school soccer players but by that point it's too late.

Original post from tylercocinas

This is simply not real life. You cannot just have a black spokesperson, or spokespersons and expect more kids in "urban" areas to just all of a sudden care about soccer. The sooner we stop even mentioning this as an appropriate solution, the sooner we can actually find effective means to continue making the game more appealing for youths of all races and ethnic backgrounds.


I want all races playing pick-up soccer incessantly from the time they can walk. Blaise does have a point though...the inner cities are hotbeds for developing basketball players (they play pick-up all the time and because of the population density, the competition is high), and it would work the same for soccer. Maradona and Tevez came from the villas of Buenos Aires. They played soccer all of the time as soon as they could walk because it was seen as the only way out. Soccer in the US is a middle to upper class sport, and those kids just usually don't play pick-up the same way (they are doing other activities and they know they will pick a different career anyway).

Original post from CS10

@blaise213 your post is hilarious keep em comin. If we followed your logic an African team would've won the WC already. Arguably the best countries Ghana and Nigeria have yet to even make the finals of the WC. Unless they're from South America (Brazil, Colombia) their are many players of African descent who lack the ball skills to become a real legend in the game, of course there are many exceptions.

@Dolcem your point is Americans lack creativity and technique. The USMNT as a whole has always been like that. Our best players in history have all either come from an immigrant population( Reyna, Ramos, Perez) or were exposed to playing similarly bc of the environment they were in (Donovan and Dempsey both played in areas with a high immigrant pop. Its no surprise if you look at our youth teams they are now displaying skill and vision on the ball never before seen in an American player. When they come of age it will be beautiful to see. Heck I'd even say its currently in the process with our last Olympic team even though they didnt qualify they played attractive football. Almost all players had high technique (minus Shea..ugh) if it wasnt for a bone head play and Porter's tactics we'd still be talking about them in a positive light.

About the pick up thing. Idk about where you live but in my are (Chicago) most pick up games are latino's and they display the kind of skill you'd expect in L.A. even today I played in open turf and it was all Mexicans cept for one white kid who's skills on the ball were suspect at best. Tbf he's an older college kid who I would expect much technique from but I've gone other days and seen a kid around 13, white, and was highly skilled on the ball breaking out stepovers, roulettes, and ankles all over the place. Kid was GOOD. My point is the younger generation now have soccer anywhere they wanna see and exposing them to tricks they can mimick where before it wasnt possible. I think theirs definitely a lot more kids like him else where and with time the US will play beautiful soccer soon enough


Great post, I agree with everything you said (except about the African teams...their lack of success comes from other problems, namely lack of resources and infrastructure). The Latino kids are the ones that play pick-up because in Mexican soccer culture, that's how the sport is learned. And it's no surprise that Mexicans are much more skilled than the white kids. That goes for kids on the street, Liga MX and MLS, and the national teams. How many white guys do we get with Torres' ball skills?

Anyway, I guess we would both agree that what needs to happen is that Americans need to start playing lots of pick-up soccer at a young age, like they do in any other country.

In other countries (especially Argentina, Brazil, and Spain) a soccer player's ability is measured by what he can do with the ball. A slow, short, fat guy who has the ball glued to his foot is much better in their eyes than some middle-class American kid who is big, strong, fast, and fit, and is a starter on his varsity team. Even if the American kid would do better in an organized game, even if he is a better player, the fat guy is a better footballer. American journalists and coaches might say our way is better and that we just need more time but when was the last time we produced a world class footballer?
GET A CLUB TEAM
chris_thebassplayer
San Jose
Post #21
Tuesday December 31, 2013 8:36am

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 1,533
Random thoughts on kickarounds, pick ups, footie whatever you want to call it.

The best part of the kickaround, and true spirit or essence of what it is...the unwritten law of worldwide footie...if you want to play, you will be welcomed into the game. Complete strangers, from all walks of life and demographics. The expectation is you never deny a fellow player, a soccer brother, from joining the game. With that said, most walk-ons will gauge the level of the game before deciding to join.

I'd have to say the age of most players in American pick ups are generally older...late teens or 20 year olds and up. Most of the time the games are after work in the evening sometimes on weekends for those that don't have league games. Lunch time scrimmages are big out here...a lot of flex schedules...guys will go into work early then disappear for a couple hours at lunch to get their footie in.

I don't see a lot of young kids playing pick ups. Kid's lives are so structured these days. You just don't see roving packs of kids left unattended with a lot of idle time. Getting back to Dolcem's comments, I agree American kids don't have the opportunity to work on their elasticos and experiment in pick up games. I don't think it is entirely due to the popularity of the sport in the US, but more a product of how closed or unsafe our society has become and the anxiety that causes among parents. Also, the goals and expectations that kids have to deal with these days...there's no time for pick ups.

On that note, I do believe more and more youth coaches are understanding the value of free expression being incorporated into organized training. Some coaches will save time at the end of practice for a free form scrimmage.

I agree with Dolcem, there is a cultural mindset to kickarounds. Some players just want to work on flash 1 v 1 skills, if they pull off just one bad ass move the entire game, they are happy as can be. Some guys just want to get midweek touches to stay sharp for their Sunday game. Some guys just want the cardio. Generally the American mindset is to win the kickaround...whatever is necessary to do that. When you have a very diverse make up of players it can be comical and sometimes very frustrating...when worlds collide. Then it comes to a boil and someone will yell 3 touch.... and from that point on everybody plays nice and the game flows.

Love the kickaround...

CS10
Post #22
Tuesday December 31, 2013 8:56am

Joined Feb 2013
Total Posts: 94
@Dolcem I agree with what you said but my point was the younger generation has played enough pick up to finally see there technique good enough to deem good or very good regardless of ethnicity. Ya, even white kids lol look at SJ's future HG Tommy Thompson that kid has insane ball skills that remind me a lot of Fagundez being from Cali and having played with many immigrant surely helped him get there. You just gotta let time take its course. I'd say Rowe has as good of technique as Torres and higher potential theirs others who I cant think of. The last u23s had pretty good technique imo and the last u20s had even more(missing many players through injury but was a predominantly a team of latin descent). This current u20s look even more promising.

@chrisou Asians to busy being doctors.. lol jk. Ya I would hope to see more of Asians in the ynt but there arent a lot. I am a nguyen fan who I think should get a shot at the NT.

CS10
Post #23
Tuesday December 31, 2013 9:23am

Joined Feb 2013
Total Posts: 94
U23 players who already have pro exp. Who I think had good technique and could be future potential usmnt players.

Agudelo Smith Over 23 but under 26: Pontius, Silva, Marfan, Nguyen
Gil Gyau
Arriola Moreno
Zardes Pfeffer
Rowe Serna
Gatt. Garcia
Villarreal Pineda
Ariyibi Salazar
Duka. Lletget
Deleon Salgado
Velasquez Rubin
Martin Flores
Hurtado

Included some young players who have yet to debut but who I think will be playing pro min in 2014

dolcem
Post #24
Tuesday December 31, 2013 9:24am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,805
CBP: One of the best posts I've ever seen on this site. One thing I agree with is the increasingly busy, structured lives bourgeois kids live...it's a very interesting sociological trend with massive implications for the newest generation. I didn't think of that regarding pick-up soccer and I think you are right. This is also a trend in England, which is seeing the quality of its players decrease. one group it does not apply to, however, are the majority of African Americans. And cities are great places for pick-up (high population density, and you can play soccer just about anywhere). This is why I think blaise's comments have merit.

CS10: Yeah, I agree, very good post. The younger generation does play more pick-up (and watches it more, which is a different topic but very important and one that Americans don't really get...no one on my high school team watched soccer, back in the mid 00's). I just think this trend needs to increase a lot more. We need at more of our kids to play soccer like it's a religion, like they do in, say, Argentina. If you don't do that, you can't become a world class player. At this point, those kids are a small minority (and spread out over a massive country), making growing a really competitive, nationwide pick-up soccer culture difficult. Hopefully it'll get there.

I will disagree about Rowe vs. Torres (unless you're referring to Roger Torres). Even if Rowe turns out to be a better player, I think Torres is much more skilled on the ball. Any Liga MX player is, and Torres is one of the more skilled CM's there. He was headed to Valencia before he injured his foot.
GET A CLUB TEAM
dfw_fan
DfW
Post #25
Tuesday December 31, 2013 3:38pm

Joined Apr 2013
Total Posts: 999
Original post from dolcem

CBP: One of the best posts I've ever seen on this site. One thing I agree with is the increasingly busy, structured lives bourgeois kids live...it's a very interesting sociological trend with massive implications for the newest generation. I didn't think of that regarding pick-up soccer and I think you are right. This is also a trend in England, which is seeing the quality of its players decrease. one group it does not apply to, however, are the majority of African Americans. And cities are great places for pick-up (high population density, and you can play soccer just about anywhere). This is why I think blaise's comments have merit.

CS10: Yeah, I agree, very good post. The younger generation does play more pick-up (and watches it more, which is a different topic but very important and one that Americans don't really get...no one on my high school team watched soccer, back in the mid 00's). I just think this trend needs to increase a lot more. We need at more of our kids to play soccer like it's a religion, like they do in, say, Argentina. If you don't do that, you can't become a world class player. At this point, those kids are a small minority (and spread out over a massive country), making growing a really competitive, nationwide pick-up soccer culture difficult. Hopefully it'll get there.

I will disagree about Rowe vs. Torres (unless you're referring to Roger Torres). Even if Rowe turns out to be a better player, I think Torres is much more skilled on the ball. Any Liga MX player is, and Torres is one of the more skilled CM's there. He was headed to Valencia before he injured his foot.


I think population density in the cities also plays a major role in pick up games as US is sparsely populated to other countries which would make it harder for parents and kids.

Live490
Texas
Post #26
Tuesday December 31, 2013 4:28pm

Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts: 1,175
Fat kid or less skilled player was always the goalie lol. Unless you were doing under the knee. Then there was always the frustrated cheap shot defender that tear our ACLs or kick you more than the ball.

mattgerlach
Florida
Post #27
Tuesday December 31, 2013 4:56pm

Joined Mar 2012
Total Posts: 13
@dolcem...it's never to late to follow your dream (unless your 85 and want to play in the BPL...even then, maybe) Check out Jon Acuff best selling author about this...and I have enjoyed reading these posts!

MSantoine
Post #28
Tuesday December 31, 2013 6:26pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,723
I lot of this comes down to the US culture and the way the world is now. Think about the countries that excel at pickup soccer. Spain, Brazil (most of SA really) Mexico, etc. What do these countries have in common? Their economies are based off factory/agriculture. In a lot of these countries cities, in reality villages, are created/were created in areas where there was a factory/mill/field that the couple hundred residents worked at. They built the village around the factory so they could walk to work. And guess what these people did with their kids? They brought them with them. You'd have 20-60 youths hanging around empty fields/parking lots with hours to kill. They'd kick a ball around since they were altogether. In USA you almost never see a bunch of children unsupervised in an area. Its unheard of. Everyone is afraid of child kidnapping and other things that it just doesnt happen here, and quite frankly never will. I dont think you can count on "pickup soccer" gaining popularity around here is its just not part of our social background anymore. The better fight to fight would be a better youth system that targets player development over winning a U7 division 4 state championship.

TheTruth
Post #29
Tuesday December 31, 2013 6:41pm

Joined Dec 2013
Total Posts: 954
Original post from skangles

Jerry Tarkanian.


+1

richieJkulesaNY
Post #30
Tuesday December 31, 2013 7:30pm

Joined Jun 2012
Total Posts: 1,016
Original post from blaise213

African americans are different from africans. 300 years of evolution in another country. African Americans are bigger, faster and stronger than their african ancestors.

It's why you don't see any african players in any other american sports.

Look at all the African american NFL players and look at the ghana team.

I grew up playing sports around black people my whole life. Im telling you, these kids will change the game.


You seem to think that we are the only country that produces big, NFL/NBA type athletes. I assure you, we arent.

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