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Clarity
Post #1
Monday December 9, 2013 11:32pm

Joined Dec 2013
Total Posts: 28
If JK brings Evans to Brazil I think I will immolate myself. I want to dispel something here that I have read over and over again or at least implied on this websit. What someone does in WC qualifying in no way carries more weight that what a player does for his club-especially someone playing in the Bund, Ere, EPL etc...Put simply the worst Bund club can easily beat a Honduras or a Costa Rican team over 50% of the time. This means that these players are easily more prepared to play Germany, Portugal or Ghans. MLS in't up to snuff. So let's stop with this nonsense. If Chandler, Dolo or Cameron are not the starting RB ( I would even accept Lichaj) then JK deserves nothing but egg on the face.

tylercocinas
Post #2
Monday December 9, 2013 11:50pm

Joined Aug 2012
Total Posts: 1,151
Original post from Clarity

If JK brings Evans to Brazil I think I will immolate myself. I want to dispel something here that I have read over and over again or at least implied on this websit. What someone does in WC qualifying in no way carries more weight that what a player does for his club-especially someone playing in the Bund, Ere, EPL etc...Put simply the worst Bund club can easily beat a Honduras or a Costa Rican team over 50% of the time. This means that these players are easily more prepared to play Germany, Portugal or Ghans. MLS in't up to snuff. So let's stop with this nonsense. If Chandler, Dolo or Cameron are not the starting RB ( I would even accept Lichaj) then JK deserves nothing but egg on the face.


I'm not an Evans fan, and I'm not really clear on your arguments in support of your position but assuming I've interpreted it correctly, I think your assertion that MLS isn't up to "snuff" is a bit off base.

If the league wasn't capable of offering players adequate preparation to play bigger games, career MLSers such as Besler and Zusi would look out of their depth against some of the countries we've played over the last 2-2 1/2 years but we've seen that hasn't necessarily been the case. That being said I do think actual players who play RB at the club level (Chandler, Lichaj, Dolo, hell even Geoff) would be a better long term fit as opposed to a player who play midfield for his club and frequently gets exposed due to his lack of pace.

Clarity
Post #3
Tuesday December 10, 2013 12:22am

Joined Dec 2013
Total Posts: 28
Do I think Besler and Zusi could do yeoman's work in a game against Germany with their top players? Yes, it is possible but not likely. Maybe 1/10 games they will play above average displaying skill level commensurate with the superior side. I would arrange my squad with players that would give me the best probability of winning. There is no way these players are capable of playing against world class talent IF THEY ARE NOT EXPOSED ON A DAILY BASIS TO IT. I don't think Zusi is a Bund. league talent but if he were to get a chance to play on a regular basis and train he would improve and perhaps be consistently serviceable at the WC level. MLS is a feeder league and precious few Americans can just show up against the very best and flourish. That is why where they play at the club level is the barometer everyone should use without remorse to gauge WC success. We are just not seeing eye to eye nor will we ever until MLS is running rampant with home grown world class talent.

Fraser31
Charleston, South Carolina
Post #4
Tuesday December 10, 2013 3:57am

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 1,408
Well. If Besler and Zusi aren't good enough, who are? You say that these players don't have the talent to compete with Germany, but who in the pool does? I think you're a little too concerned with the wrong issues here. Those guys are on our team because they are better than others in the pool at their position. How many CB's do we have playing in the EPL? Bund? Serie A? Ligue 1? La Liga?.... None. Our standard for talent can only be as high as the calibre of players we have. I understand you'd like some BETTER than Zusi and Besler, and I understand your concern with Evans (he won't be RB for much longer I don't believe), but we all want players better than them. That's why every time some young gun starts playing well everyone gets MNT erections and suggests that they get a call up (I'm guilty of it myself).

MSantoine
Post #5
Tuesday December 10, 2013 4:15am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,723
No other countries except the CONCACAF minnows (T&T, Jamaica, Central American teams) bring MLS players to the world cup. Until other countries see MLS as worthy of top class international soccer it wont be there. I love MLS but if you take the patriotic glasses off and look at things objectively then you cant say MLS is better than any of the Euro leagues. Go back and look at what domestic leagues send players to the world cup, specifically for other countries (it how many non-French countries chose players from Ligue 1, etc). Ignoring obvious european leagues, Here are a list of countries whose domestic leagues sent players to a team that was a realistic knockout round caliber team.

Some of the domestic leagues that sent players to the world cup for other countries:
Uae (Chile, Australia), Scotland (not even Celtic, Ivory Coast), Israel (Ivory Coast, Nigeria), Greece (Brazil) , Mexico (Paraguay, USA) Qatar (Ghana), Egypt (Ghana), Norway (Ghana, USA), Japan (Australia, South Korea) , Denmark (USA), Romania (Greece), Cyprus (Greece) , Saudi Arabia (South Korea), China (South Korea), Sweden (Uruguay)

Until other federations see MLS players as world class caliber then we shouldnt either. We should be striving to get to the level of germany, italy, spain. Those teams consist almost primarily with EPL, La Liga, bundesliga, and Serie A players.

Fraser31
Charleston, South Carolina
Post #6
Tuesday December 10, 2013 4:32am

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 1,408
I'm not disagreeing with you. But we literally just don't have players of that calibre. Of course the standard is to strive to be that good but our players aren't at that level. We don't have the number of players in top leagues that other countries do. I don't think anyone here would argue that the MLS isn't as good as those leagues.

Fraser31
Charleston, South Carolina
Post #7
Tuesday December 10, 2013 4:33am

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 1,408
is*

tylercocinas
Post #8
Tuesday December 10, 2013 5:02am

Joined Aug 2012
Total Posts: 1,151
Original post from MSantoine

No other countries except the CONCACAF minnows (T&T, Jamaica, Central American teams) bring MLS players to the world cup. Until other countries see MLS as worthy of top class international soccer it wont be there. I love MLS but if you take the patriotic glasses off and look at things objectively then you cant say MLS is better than any of the Euro leagues.


There are so many external factors at work in the situation though. Why would a European national team encourage their players to come across the ocean where it will be more difficult to monitor their progress, the travel/geography of the league also takes a toll, and you have to fly transcontinental to join up with your national team, wherever they might be playing?

Given those considerations, I'm unsure if we will ever see a time when the top European players are flocking in bunches to MLS. So I think it begs the question of whether or not using the opinion of other federations (who have their own agendas) regarding MLS is a reliable indicator of whether or not the league is able to provide a decent level of competition, or prepare players to compete in the World Cup.

Not saying the caliber of MLS isn't below some European leagues, but its certainly above most considering there are (give or take) about 50 nations in UEFA.

Live490
Texas
Post #9
Tuesday December 10, 2013 5:59am

Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts: 1,174
Plus the CHAMPIONS..MLS will not have the Libertadores again soon and even if it did, would it be enough to attract someone who has the opportunity to play in the champions? Even Europa would maybe be better than libertadores..

Clarity
Post #10
Tuesday December 10, 2013 6:45am

Joined Dec 2013
Total Posts: 28
Fraser,

My point is that a Chandler or Dolo ( if healthy) should be playing ahead of Evans in Brazil. Evans shouldn't even be on the plane. You asked about CB. We have JAB whom I would rather play than Besler. The second division in Germany is better than MLS or at least on par.So experience is not a concern when compared to Besler. Zusi is a journeyman at best outside MLS. Who would I rather play instead of Zusi? Bedoya. Why? Playing first team minutes in league 1. Obviously if there aren't any players in top Euro leagues we will have to settle for the best in MLS. I am not sure I understand your point. Want another example if you don't get it? AJ for EJ. If I see EJ play instead I will go apoplectic.

Fraser31
Charleston, South Carolina
Post #11
Tuesday December 10, 2013 6:54am

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 1,408
I get it, dude. You don't have to patronize me to make your point. I conceded that we all want better players than Evans. And it remains to be seen if JAB deserves to start for us. Not only has he been in and out of first team minutes he's also been inconsistent and partially at fault for some goals conceded. Bedoya hasn't produced for us even though he is playing well for Nantes. If you understand that we will have to settle for the best in MLS then it's pretty clear that you understand my point. Once again, all the concerns you have here with AJ vs. EJ, Bedoya vs. Zusi, Chandler/Dolo/Cameron vs. Evans, are all concerns that the majority of people on this site already have and have expressed accordingly. Understand MY point?

Clarity
Post #12
Tuesday December 10, 2013 7:13am

Joined Dec 2013
Total Posts: 28
Let's take a step back. I was supporting my argument with examples. Meant no personal attack. You asked a question so I answered it with my opinion. I don't profess to think it is unassailable. I do think a lot of people are confused on this site. I see people projecting Evans starting on their XI for WC. What myopia! Makes me nauseous and I just don't get it.

futurespur
tampa
Post #13
Tuesday December 10, 2013 7:18am

Joined Aug 2013
Total Posts: 5
While I absolutely agree that not playing at the highest levels puts one at a disadvantage, I do have to voice my support for Brad Evans in this case. I would usually be the first one to say that playing in MLS is simply not good enough when it comes to playing teams of the caliber that we will face in the World Cup. In fact, I would say that about Zusi, Omar Gonzalez, and others. However, Evans has displayed an ability above any of the right backs available, other than maybe Geoff Cameron who is NOT a right back. If Cameron is used in the center (his natural and best position), then our options are Chandler-doesn't-wanna-play-for-us, Dolo-can't-stay-healthy-because-he's-34, and a bunch of other mediocre or downright out-of-place right backs. Lichaj is not a better right back than Evans. Evans was one of the most consistent players during the qualification campaign. Beyond that, he was consistently strong in that position. Not just someone who was a good stopgap, he really was a good right back who made good decisions and positioned himself very well. His game against Germany, friendly or no, was an excellent outing and it was then that I first thought we may have something. When he continued to show well, I became convinced that he was, tactically, our best choice. He doesn't stray out of his zones very often; but when he does, it is usually to good effect. His MLS form should not be the barometer of his ability to play the role, just as any player's club form should not necessarily be that barometer. Jozy Altidore during the past few months? Lukas Podolski? Brad Evans.

Fraser31
Charleston, South Carolina
Post #14
Tuesday December 10, 2013 7:21am

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 1,408
Original post from Clarity

Let's take a step back. I was supporting my argument with examples. Meant no personal attack. You asked a question so I answered it with my opinion. I don't profess to think it is unassailable. I do think a lot of people are confused on this site. I see people projecting Evans starting on their XI for WC. What myopia! Makes me nauseous and I just don't get it.


My bad if I misinterpreted your intentions. Finals week has me all nervy and whatnot. Trust me, Evans is not in my starting 11, but I believe he has performed admirably in spite of his short-comings.

tylercocinas
Post #15
Tuesday December 10, 2013 9:33am

Joined Aug 2012
Total Posts: 1,151
Original post from Fraser31
Finals week has me all nervy and whatnot.


You and me both

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