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Dimo
Post #121
Saturday March 15, 2014 12:20am

Joined Nov 2013
Total Posts: 277
Original post from dunlopp9987

Were you watching the Austria match?? Cam was the best player on the pitch. Did his job defensively, and got forward very effectively as well. Brad Evans showed against South Korea (let me repeat that: SOUTH KOREA) that he has no business being near the starting XI. Or Brazil, for that matter. It's a joke that he's even in consideration.

Geoff Cameron has arguably been the best Yank playing abroad this season (AJ is another). He needs to be in the starting XI. Plain and simple.


+100

EKneezy
Atlanta
Post #122
Saturday March 15, 2014 1:27am

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 3,292
Yeah agreed. You found a CB pairing that works. Put Cameron at RB. He's our only shot at not getting abused on the wings.

Until Chandler is back and healthy, no other option.

And even then, its not like Chandler is a lock to play, although he should be.

EKneezy
Atlanta
Post #123
Saturday March 15, 2014 1:33am

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 3,292
Original post from Dimo

I'm pretty sure that we would all like to see Cameron at RB. But when you really look at it, he's needed at cb. If we play Cam at RB then guess who starts vs some of the best attacking talent in the world. Omar Gonzalez. Quite a few posters on here were still defending Gonzo up until recently. But just in case there are still any skeptics out there I did a round up of who was to blame for each goal scored in 2013 when playing with close to a full strength side.

USMNT vs Honduras - Gonzo to blame for both goals
USMNT vs Jamaica - Gonzo
USMNT vs Costa Rica - The whole team was outplayed. Multiple culprits
USMNT vs Belgium - Cameron and Gonzo ball watching for the first, Gonzo responsible for the second, Boyd with a bad give away and Gonzo losing his marker for the third, and Jones for the fourth. Let it be known that Cameron made up for his error with a goal.
USMNT vs Germany - Gonzo for the first, Gonzo for the second, and Castillo, Evans and Gonzo for the third.
Usmnt vs Bosnia - EJ with a bad give away and Evans, Brooks, Cameron all ball watching for the first. The second goal was offsides and Brooks was fouled. The third goal was Brooks.

From my count that is 9 goals allowed because of an error by Gonzo. Keep in mind that he didn't even play vs Bosnia. What exactly is the use in having him start for the Nats? His height? He doesn't know how to use it. He hasn't scored for us when coming up from the back. Neither has Besler but he pulls his own weight on the other end of the pitch. There is no reason Gonzo should start for the USMNT. He is a liability with little upsides. Slot in Cameron and put either Fabian or Chandler at RB. Its looking more and more likely that JK is starting Beasley at LB anyway. I'd rather have 1 weak spot than 2. If i had it my way I'd line our back line up like this:

FJ-Besler-Cameron-Chandler


Although I do agree about him being mistake prone, why not include his good games in the Hex? His few games in the Gold Cup? You have to include those don't you?

Dimo
Post #124
Saturday March 15, 2014 3:43am

Joined Nov 2013
Total Posts: 277
Original post from EKneezy

Although I do agree about him being mistake prone, why not include his good games in the Hex? His few games in the Gold Cup? You have to include those don't you?


I was only showing who was at fault for the goals scored. That just happened to be gonzo

admsghs27
Post #125
Saturday March 15, 2014 4:48am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 6,060
Well Cameron, Beasley, healer, even Jones, Fabian were fault for many goals as much as him. Stop hating dimo I will go as far as saying gonzo is the best defender we have.

Dimo
Post #126
Saturday March 15, 2014 4:51am

Joined Nov 2013
Total Posts: 277
Original post from admsghs27

Well Cameron, Beasley, healer, even Jones, Fabian were fault for many goals as much as him. Stop hating dimo I will go as far as saying gonzo is the best defender we have.


I usually ignore your nonsense but I'll humor you and try to help you find reason. Go back and watch the lead up to the goals scored in the past year when Gonzo played. You will find that in most cases it was his fault. A few others are to blame here and there but none are as error prone as Gonzalez.

dolcem
Post #127
Saturday March 15, 2014 5:32am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,805
Gonzo is awful. He brings nothing to the table other than height. He's slow, clumsy, and good for about two mistakes a game against CONCACAF opponents...I'm guessing around five against Germany, three of which will be scored.
GET A CLUB TEAM
dunlopp9987
Post #128
Saturday March 15, 2014 3:38pm

Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts: 2,645
Original post from admsghs27

Well Cameron, Beasley, healer, even Jones, Fabian were fault for many goals as much as him. Stop hating dimo I will go as far as saying gonzo is the best defender we have.


And this is why no one takes you seriously.
COYB!!
Xtratime3
Rio de Janeiro
Post #129
Monday March 17, 2014 7:07pm

Joined Jan 2014
Total Posts: 11
In my prior forum there were a couple of guys who could see no wrong with Gonzerror. Maybe you are one of them migrated here. Sad that some people are not objective when they fall in love with a player.
Takes me xtratime to understand you
oldkeeper
NY, NY
Post #130
Monday March 17, 2014 10:13pm

Joined Jun 2013
Total Posts: 165
Just maybe the US needs to look at CB as whole and figure out why we consistently have big, athletic, albeit slow guys at that position who cost us goals because they're constantly out of position. Gonzo, Gooch, Goodson, Boca (best of the bunch but often too slow) Lalas, etc. Youth systems still look at positioning in American Football terms. "If he's big, he'll plug up the middle." Problem is, that usually comes with poor ball skills, no pace, and an over reliance on physicality vs. positioning and tactics. We really need to rethink this position altogether. Sure, having a bruiser in front of you as a keeper is more comforting (as a former keeper I can tell you this) but the best CB's/sweepers are skilled, fast, and physical. Not just linebackers in soccer cleats. Klinsmann's options are limited for this WC so I hope he's looking at this long term from a developmental standpoint. Best CB I ever played with in college was a central midfielder for most of his youth development. Not a big guy, but fantastic ball skills, great positioning, and most importantly, he thought like an attacker, so he knew where they'd go and knew how to track runs, and then when he got the ball, he actually played an offensive outlet pass, not just booted it up the field. We really need a guy like that.

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #131
Monday March 17, 2014 10:35pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 10,574
Besler is the best CB in the pool right now. But things will change in the next cycle.

venicebeachbull
Post #132
Monday March 17, 2014 10:36pm

Joined Jun 2012
Total Posts: 133
Original post from oldkeeper

Just maybe the US needs to look at CB as whole and figure out why we consistently have big, athletic, albeit slow guys at that position who cost us goals because they're constantly out of position. Gonzo, Gooch, Goodson, Boca (best of the bunch but often too slow) Lalas, etc. Youth systems still look at positioning in American Football terms. "If he's big, he'll plug up the middle." Problem is, that usually comes with poor ball skills, no pace, and an over reliance on physicality vs. positioning and tactics. We really need to rethink this position altogether. Sure, having a bruiser in front of you as a keeper is more comforting (as a former keeper I can tell you this) but the best CB's/sweepers are skilled, fast, and physical. Not just linebackers in soccer cleats. Klinsmann's options are limited for this WC so I hope he's looking at this long term from a developmental standpoint. Best CB I ever played with in college was a central midfielder for most of his youth development. Not a big guy, but fantastic ball skills, great positioning, and most importantly, he thought like an attacker, so he knew where they'd go and knew how to track runs, and then when he got the ball, he actually played an offensive outlet pass, not just booted it up the field. We really need a guy like that.


Maurice Edu at CB...See what happens.

dolcem
Post #133
Tuesday March 18, 2014 12:36am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,805
Original post from oldkeeper

Just maybe the US needs to look at CB as whole and figure out why we consistently have big, athletic, albeit slow guys at that position who cost us goals because they're constantly out of position. Gonzo, Gooch, Goodson, Boca (best of the bunch but often too slow) Lalas, etc. Youth systems still look at positioning in American Football terms. "If he's big, he'll plug up the middle." Problem is, that usually comes with poor ball skills, no pace, and an over reliance on physicality vs. positioning and tactics. We really need to rethink this position altogether. Sure, having a bruiser in front of you as a keeper is more comforting (as a former keeper I can tell you this) but the best CB's/sweepers are skilled, fast, and physical. Not just linebackers in soccer cleats. Klinsmann's options are limited for this WC so I hope he's looking at this long term from a developmental standpoint. Best CB I ever played with in college was a central midfielder for most of his youth development. Not a big guy, but fantastic ball skills, great positioning, and most importantly, he thought like an attacker, so he knew where they'd go and knew how to track runs, and then when he got the ball, he actually played an offensive outlet pass, not just booted it up the field. We really need a guy like that.


Great post. I think this is simply part of a bigger problem with US soccer. The style of play is just to primitive, too English. So of course the CB's will be tall, clumsy guys who never learned how to control and pass the ball and play with a high line on a team that plays positive soccer. Defending deep with boot ajd root tactics all the time won't teach you how to position yourself in a higher line against the world's best players and fastest counter-attacks.

Aside from the slow CB, we have other prototypical American players: the hustling fullback (Hejduk), the bruiser #8 (Edu, Bradley), the poacher winger, often tall and good on set pieces (San Jose guys, Mike Magee, etc.), the hard-working outside mid who can cross (Zusi, Davis, etc.) the Emile Heskey type target forward (Casey, Ching, Cooper), the poacher (Wondo, Twellman, etc.). More or less we're a poor man's England. And English soccer is in serious decline (the English players, not the foreigners in the EPL). We need to start playing more like the Germans, Dutch, French, or Portuguese. Thing is though to play like that, we need good young talent though, and not enough of our kids seriously play pick-up soccer from 2-7. Hopefully that's changing.
GET A CLUB TEAM
MSantoine
Post #134
Tuesday March 18, 2014 2:07am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,723
Original post from oldkeeper

Just maybe the US needs to look at CB as whole and figure out why we consistently have big, athletic, albeit slow guys at that position who cost us goals because they're constantly out of position. Gonzo, Gooch, Goodson, Boca (best of the bunch but often too slow) Lalas, etc. Youth systems still look at positioning in American Football terms. "If he's big, he'll plug up the middle." Problem is, that usually comes with poor ball skills, no pace, and an over reliance on physicality vs. positioning and tactics. We really need to rethink this position altogether. Sure, having a bruiser in front of you as a keeper is more comforting (as a former keeper I can tell you this) but the best CB's/sweepers are skilled, fast, and physical. Not just linebackers in soccer cleats. Klinsmann's options are limited for this WC so I hope he's looking at this long term from a developmental standpoint. Best CB I ever played with in college was a central midfielder for most of his youth development. Not a big guy, but fantastic ball skills, great positioning, and most importantly, he thought like an attacker, so he knew where they'd go and knew how to track runs, and then when he got the ball, he actually played an offensive outlet pass, not just booted it up the field. We really need a guy like that.


Exactly. How many times in youth leagues do you see teams have a strategy of whoever can boot the ball the furthest plays cb. Then they are coached to just bomb the ball down field anytime they can get a toe on it. Never pass. Never dribble. Just long ball.

dfw_fan
DfW
Post #135
Tuesday March 18, 2014 3:00am

Joined Apr 2013
Total Posts: 999
Original post from MSantoine

Exactly. How many times in youth leagues do you see teams have a strategy of whoever can boot the ball the furthest plays cb. Then they are coached to just bomb the ball down field anytime they can get a toe on it. Never pass. Never dribble. Just long ball.


Yep, at my daughter's game, the coach always yells kick it out kick it out. It is frustrating

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