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nolefansandy
Post #1
Thursday October 17, 2013 6:36pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 274
Rumors coming out of Santos Laguna that Cuevas and Joya want to return home and play for San Jose. Good Move?

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #2
Thursday October 17, 2013 6:59pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 4,670
Could be a very good move. Both would provide some much needed attacking threats for San Jose next season.

tylercocinas
Post #3
Thursday October 17, 2013 7:06pm

Joined Aug 2012
Total Posts: 655
I would welcome these two moving to SJ if it meant the leagues most notorious club actually making an attempt to play soccer when they stepped on the pitch instead of the stupid antics/bulls**t they are known for at this time.

chris_thebassplayer
San Jose
Post #4
Friday October 18, 2013 6:09am

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 255
Adding Joya and Cuevas would be fantastic. I'd like to see what Joya could do supported by Cronin. Cuevas would take longer to crack the line up.

The Quakes are actually better than a lot of people give them credit for. I know Lenny is a tough pill to swallow, and Bernardez can play a out of control at times, but most of the other players on the team are fine and can ping it around pretty well when they need to. The problem is the Quakes don't have a traditional ACM. Baca is a holding mid that distributes higher up the field. The team was built to play up the flanks and cross the ball...about as simple as you can get. It's effective for them, the burden is on the other team, that usually plays much more attractive soccer to keep the ball out of its own net. It's so fundamental, it should be easy to defend. Quakes had about 8 uncontested headers against Colorado and finally put one in and all Pereja can talk about is how the Quakes have singlehandedly ruined the game of soccer...

dolcem
Post #5
Friday October 18, 2013 6:22am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,026
I don't like it. They've come through the Mexican youth system, let them continue the trajectory of their development over there. They've just spent the past few years training to be Liga MX players, it would probably be best for their development to play in the system they've been trained to play in. Moreover, Liga MX is a very competitive league that is churning out a lot of great talent and the style of play there is very conducive to player development (especially to players of their types). I could see them thriving there but in the MLS they might be square pegs trying to fit into round holes, not to mention the MLS isn't the best place for creative, attacking players to develop. If things don't work out in Mexico than they should come to the MLS but they should stay there for a while and have a crack at it before coming back to the US.
NO ONE GIVES A SHIT ABOUT WHAT LINEUP YOU USE IN FIFA
rjw77
Post #6
Friday October 18, 2013 1:12pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 262
Original post from dolcem

I don't like it. They've come through the Mexican youth system, let them continue the trajectory of their development over there. They've just spent the past few years training to be Liga MX players, it would probably be best for their development to play in the system they've been trained to play in. Moreover, Liga MX is a very competitive league that is churning out a lot of great talent and the style of play there is very conducive to player development (especially to players of their types). I could see them thriving there but in the MLS they might be square pegs trying to fit into round holes, not to mention the MLS isn't the best place for creative, attacking players to develop. If things don't work out in Mexico than they should come to the MLS but they should stay there for a while and have a crack at it before coming back to the US.


That is what is happening though. Both 20 year olds who one has only made a cup substitution appearance, the other has never played for the first team. It isn't working out for in them Santos so that's why there could be a possible move to San Jose. If they were consistently playing first team football with Santos this wouldn't even be a discussion.

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #7
Friday October 18, 2013 4:43pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 4,670
MLS isn't the best place for creative attacking talent? There are plenty of cases that highly creative and attacking players have developed and thrived in MLS: Donovan, Dempsey, Nagbe, Christian Gomez, Agudelo, Fagundez, Rowe, Nguyen, Shea, Freddy Montero, Manneh, Zardes, Villarreal. MLS is changing less and less from teams that are playing like San Jose(who will have to change as well), and more teams that are playing with creativity and flair.

Both players are coming to MLS at a time when creative attacking players are sought after.

camparkinson
Post #8
Friday October 18, 2013 5:05pm

Joined Aug 2012
Total Posts: 166
I'd love to see it, more US youth internationals that we can watch on a weekly basis is great. And SJ needs to make moves, it's been pretty pathetic their lack of moves given their increased financial abilities with CCL, pretty pathetic when you add only a CB, LB and then bench role players.

Kind of feels like they are waiting around for some mystical new coach that will take over next year, but SJ has historically not done much investing in its team with the ownership. Lew Wolff is just a greedy Real Estate Developer who owns teams in the hopes of building large complex's around new stadiums. I keep hoping he sells the Earthquakes to someone who actually cares about the game and about winning (Same problem with the Oakland A's).

Pretty tough to be a fan when the owners don't even care....

dolcem
Post #9
Monday October 21, 2013 11:16am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,026
Original post from 2tone

MLS isn't the best place for creative attacking talent? There are plenty of cases that highly creative and attacking players have developed and thrived in MLS: Donovan, Dempsey, Nagbe, Christian Gomez, Agudelo, Fagundez, Rowe, Nguyen, Shea, Freddy Montero, Manneh, Zardes, Villarreal. MLS is changing less and less from teams that are playing like San Jose(who will have to change as well), and more teams that are playing with creativity and flair.

Both players are coming to MLS at a time when creative attacking players are sought after.


What we want for the NT are quality players succeeding in the most competitive leagues in the world. I think any fan would agree. So I was referring to the MLS' ability to cultivate attacking talent that could break into the top leagues and play well there. So 'developed and thrived,' in this case, for me would mean someone who spent some time in the MLS, played well, improved as a player, then moved to a more competitive league and succeeded there. That's how we would measure it for any league.

In the case of the MLS, the only players of the past generation who fit this criteria were Dempsey, Donovan, and Altidore. Shea and Agudelo could be the next ones but we'll have to wait and see, not to mention the fact that Agudelo came into the MLS as a prodigy but never really tore up the league or seem to make big improvements in his development, making it difficult to attribute a lot of credit to the MLS. As for the first three, I think most of Donovan's development was abroad and the fact that he never fulfilled his potential isn't an indicator of the MLS' ability to develop players (not saying that it provides any evidence otherwise, just saying that it can't be used as an example either way). So that means that in the past ten years or so, the MLS has successfully produced and exported two quality attacking players.

Some leagues are better than others when it comes to technical development. The Dutch league, for example, is one of the best in terms of developing players, as is La Liga in Spain. The Premier league, however, is not (most of its best players developed in other countries and then moved to England).

This doesn't have too much to do with the wealth of the country (look at Brazil and Argentina), population (great players come out of the Dutch and Portuguese leagues, for example), or any other tangible factor. It has to do with the style of play of the country (at all ages and levels). The soccer played in a country like Argentina or Holland is conducive to player development. The English style of play is not, which is why the British and Irish teams are falling desperately behind continental Europe and have to import all of their talented players. Our style of play is based on the traditional English system and is even more English than how they play. That's why we're so held back in terms of player development (especially in terms of creative attacking talent).

Attacking players develop better in systems and cultures where more creativity is allowed and attacking quality is innate in the players, since they always have played a style where such soccer is encouraged. Argentina and Spain are great examples. And I think Mexico is becoming one too. There youth talent recently has been tremendous (even if their national team has a horrible attitude and can't put it together) and the league has improved a lot over the past few years. I look at the style of soccer they play and I think it's a very good place for young talent to develop. At the very least, I think it'd be better than the MLS. Not to mention it is much more competitive and the coaching is much more experienced.

Neither of these two would make the World Cup squad anyway so I say they give it another year in Liga MX before coming to the MLS. Maybe think about switching teams.
NO ONE GIVES A SHIT ABOUT WHAT LINEUP YOU USE IN FIFA
tylercocinas
Post #10
Monday October 21, 2013 3:01pm

Joined Aug 2012
Total Posts: 655
Original post from dolcem
Attacking players develop better in systems and cultures where more creativity is allowed and attacking quality is innate in the players, since they always have played a style where such soccer is encouraged. Argentina and Spain are great examples. And I think Mexico is becoming one too.


After a while it becomes more about playing actual matches than being in an environment that is conducive to playing beautifully. Not saying that Cuevas & Joya are at that point, but they are rapidly approaching it if they aren't.

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #11
Monday October 21, 2013 3:13pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 4,670
Original post from dolcem

What we want for the NT are quality players succeeding in the most competitive leagues in the world. I think any fan would agree. So I was referring to the MLS' ability to cultivate attacking talent that could break into the top leagues and play well there. So 'developed and thrived,' in this case, for me would mean someone who spent some time in the MLS, played well, improved as a player, then moved to a more competitive league and succeeded there. That's how we would measure it for any league.

In the case of the MLS, the only players of the past generation who fit this criteria were Dempsey, Donovan, and Altidore. Shea and Agudelo could be the next ones but we'll have to wait and see, not to mention the fact that Agudelo came into the MLS as a prodigy but never really tore up the league or seem to make big improvements in his development, making it difficult to attribute a lot of credit to the MLS. As for the first three, I think most of Donovan's development was abroad and the fact that he never fulfilled his potential isn't an indicator of the MLS' ability to develop players (not saying that it provides any evidence otherwise, just saying that it can't be used as an example either way). So that means that in the past ten years or so, the MLS has successfully produced and exported two quality attacking players.

Some leagues are better than others when it comes to technical development. The Dutch league, for example, is one of the best in terms of developing players, as is La Liga in Spain. The Premier league, however, is not (most of its best players developed in other countries and then moved to England).

This doesn't have too much to do with the wealth of the country (look at Brazil and Argentina), population (great players come out of the Dutch and Portuguese leagues, for example), or any other tangible factor. It has to do with the style of play of the country (at all ages and levels). The soccer played in a country like Argentina or Holland is conducive to player development. The English style of play is not, which is why the British and Irish teams are falling desperately behind continental Europe and have to import all of their talented players. Our style of play is based on the traditional English system and is even more English than how they play. That's why we're so held back in terms of player development (especially in terms of creative attacking talent).

Attacking players develop better in systems and cultures where more creativity is allowed and attacking quality is innate in the players, since they always have played a style where such soccer is encouraged. Argentina and Spain are great examples. And I think Mexico is becoming one too. There youth talent recently has been tremendous (even if their national team has a horrible attitude and can't put it together) and the league has improved a lot over the past few years. I look at the style of soccer they play and I think it's a very good place for young talent to develop. At the very least, I think it'd be better than the MLS. Not to mention it is much more competitive and the coaching is much more experienced.

Neither of these two would make the World Cup squad anyway so I say they give it another year in Liga MX before coming to the MLS. Maybe think about switching teams.


Donovan was in Germany for 3 years. 17 to 20. Most of his development was in the US and MLS.

I have no problems with players developing and playing in MLS.

The US academy system/MLS academy system is producing talented players, and the fact that more and more European teams and Mexican teams are looking towards the US in signing players; means that MLS and the US academy system are definitely doing things right.