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hamsamwich
Post #31
Thursday May 21, 2015 2:05pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,212
Yea but Argentina is a relatively poor country which doesn't have the potential to generate revenue like the USA can.

I liked the proposal above wherein we have a two tier system with MLS and NASL. Neither league will agree to it now but in the future they may. Would allow for limited promotion and relegation while keeping all the same teams in 2 leagues. My only problem with pro/rel now is it's hard enough to build the current fanbases if they had a chance to disappear it would be a waste of time and money (not an American sports business model).

The USA has a good enough economy and plenty of players to provide for that many teams. We've beat around the bush on this topic for a long time now, but the MLS is simply a reflection of the talent in this country + outside investment and marketability. But American players have been and will always be the core of the league. The soccer has always been mediocre- it improves by small amounts every year. Romanticizing about when there were 10 teams in the league has me remembering that poorer quality of play. For example Taylor Twellman would be a lot worse when compared with other players in the league today rather than the annoying super star he was back then.

kjperuch
Post #32
Thursday May 21, 2015 4:50pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 223
You would think if you were going to build a league up you would mimic those other leagues that are currently successful. I know Americans like to be different and all but being different isn't always a good thing. I feel like the MLS is the a red headed step child.

hamsamwich
Post #33
Thursday May 21, 2015 5:14pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,212
Hey I like the Argentinian league as much as the next guy- I backed Tontito's claim of Boca Juniors being a better, bigger club than Arsenal. That may be true. But the Argentinian league just like Brazil, Scotland, Italy and others have huge money problems the MLS doesn't want to associate itself with.

Don Garber and crew only care about $$$, the American business model. They don't care about competing with those foreign leagues in terms of playing ability etc. But at the end of the day, the bottom line and the franchise fees is what counts to these guys. In Scotland, Rangers, one of the big clubs and home of players like Beasley, Edu and Bocanega in the Champions league would've crushed New England revolution, but the Bottom Line being important over here and winning over there- we see the difference in business models. Or AC Milan v LA Galaxy.

dolcem
Post #34
Thursday May 21, 2015 6:37pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,805
Original post from hamsamwich

Yea but Argentina is a relatively poor country which doesn't have the potential to generate revenue like the USA can.

I liked the proposal above wherein we have a two tier system with MLS and NASL. Neither league will agree to it now but in the future they may. Would allow for limited promotion and relegation while keeping all the same teams in 2 leagues. My only problem with pro/rel now is it's hard enough to build the current fanbases if they had a chance to disappear it would be a waste of time and money (not an American sports business model).

The USA has a good enough economy and plenty of players to provide for that many teams. We've beat around the bush on this topic for a long time now, but the MLS is simply a reflection of the talent in this country + outside investment and marketability. But American players have been and will always be the core of the league. The soccer has always been mediocre- it improves by small amounts every year. Romanticizing about when there were 10 teams in the league has me remembering that poorer quality of play. For example Taylor Twellman would be a lot worse when compared with other players in the league today rather than the annoying super star he was back then.


It has absolutely nothing to do with money and everything to do with player quality. Argentina has tons of quality players (certainly in the top five as far as that goes) but even they do not have enough for a 30 team league. The talent level has gotten really diluted this season and the quality of play has really suffered. This would be compounded in the MLS because of its parity: all of the teams get worse as the league grows because of the salary cap and expansion draft. And in the US, we have nowhere near as many quality players as, say, Argentina or Germany does. We are decades away from having enough talent for a 30 team league that is competitive with the world's best (although I hope I live to see that day), and until we do, we want the league to be as competitive as possible.

I think you make an important point with the second paragraph though, and it's one that people forget: the bulk of the league's players are American, and their quality is not determined by their salary but by the system in which they developed.

Original post from hamsamwich

Hey I like the Argentinian league as much as the next guy- I backed Tontito's claim of Boca Juniors being a better, bigger club than Arsenal. That may be true. But the Argentinian league just like Brazil, Scotland, Italy and others have huge money problems the MLS doesn't want to associate itself with.

Don Garber and crew only care about $$$, the American business model. They don't care about competing with those foreign leagues in terms of playing ability etc. But at the end of the day, the bottom line and the franchise fees is what counts to these guys. In Scotland, Rangers, one of the big clubs and home of players like Beasley, Edu and Bocanega in the Champions league would've crushed New England revolution, but the Bottom Line being important over here and winning over there- we see the difference in business models. Or AC Milan v LA Galaxy.


This is the problem with the Don. Although the American franchise system is what the MLS needs and financial security is paramount, it is in the long term interests of the league to improve the quality of play. Garber and co. need to remember that the better the USNT plays, the more Americans start watching soccer, and that the vast Eurosnob market can be captured if the league's quality starts to rival that of other elite leagues (still decades away). It's a long-term game but if they don't start playing it, the MLS will never come close to what the NFL or EPL is. Most of all, there needs to be more incentives for teams to develop and export their academy products. But Don and his band of owners are only interested in short-term profit, and the changes needed to be implemented will not bear fruit until the next generation is running things. Their utter disregard for some of the basics is disturbing: it is nothing short of downright embarrassing that Portland and Vancouver play on turf in SSS, and that new franchises are being allowed in with no plans to play on grass (Atlanta and Minnesota). And we see this too in the DP signings: they let Guti, Ronaldinho, Riquelme, and now Xavi all slip away, and instead we get Tim Cahill and Frank Lampard. It seems that ownership has calculated that since the overall quality of play doesn't enough into attendance, it doesn't matter. In the long term, it's something we're going to pay dearly for.
GET A CLUB TEAM
blaise213
Post #35
Thursday May 21, 2015 6:50pm

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 2,987
MLS will never be anything if they continue to build these Mickey Mouse Stadiums!

hamsamwich
Post #36
Thursday May 21, 2015 7:01pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,212
I'd argue the Mickey Mouse stadiums are the correct niche on which to build a future. Debt is a motherfucker the deals have to be right for the markets. The turf is what really annoys me as well.

FYI - Minnesota is going to play on grass.

Miami and LAFC should've been St Louis and Sacramento. Even Atlanta could've-should've had to wait. But at the same time, I'm all for the growth of the game if those markets prove they want it. I rather liked Jacksonville last year when I went for the USA Nigeria game. Plenty of markets- not enough quality yet. This years tv schedule is the right direction to start with.

MSantoine
Post #37
Thursday May 21, 2015 8:14pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,723
Look at some of the schmucks that play in la liga 2 and bundes 2. Those would be first league teams if they had 30 teams. You need s lot of money to keep the plsyer pool good enough to support 30 teams.

admsghs27
Post #38
Thursday May 21, 2015 8:16pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 6,060
I really Doubt MLS gets to 30 clubs. 24 is the Max, I could see current franchises moving to other cities tho down the road.

dolcem
Post #39
Friday May 22, 2015 4:09am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,805
Original post from MSantoine

Look at some of the schmucks that play in la liga 2 and bundes 2. Those would be first league teams if they had 30 teams. You need s lot of money to keep the plsyer pool good enough to support 30 teams.


It'd still be the same players (along with a few extra foreigners). Playing the same players more does not make them any better. Their quality is determined by their upbringing (academies, coaching, etc.). That's something you can't buy. Argentina has a 30 team league that is still good (top ten in the world) even though the salaries are really low because the culture produces a lot of great players and coaches.
GET A CLUB TEAM
skangles
DC
Post #40
Friday May 22, 2015 11:28am

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 5,441
Beckham and Garber are set to meet the U about a joint 40k seat stadium. Blaise is going to flip with joy!

Ironically, Miami might be one market where a smaller stadium makes sense.

MSantoine
Post #41
Friday May 22, 2015 12:00pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,723
Original post from dolcem

It'd still be the same players (along with a few extra foreigners). Playing the same players more does not make them any better. Their quality is determined by their upbringing (academies, coaching, etc.). That's something you can't buy. Argentina has a 30 team league that is still good (top ten in the world) even though the salaries are really low because the culture produces a lot of great players and coaches.


I never consider Argentina & brazil when talking about potential models for MLS or US soccer. You cant recreate those two hot beds anywhere, even in Europe. EVERYONE plays soccer in those two countries. They have enough skill for 30 teams.

Most European leagues have 12-20 teams in their first division. For a comparison to a country that is similar to us in size look at Russia. They only have 16 teams in their first division. You'd have almost their whole 2nd division amongst there first if they expanded to 30 teams. It'd be very difficult for us. We have the cities/media markets, but to get the talent is a whole different challenge altogether.

EKneezy
Atlanta
Post #42
Friday July 17, 2015 6:02pm

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 3,151
Tentative agreement has been reached. 25,000 seats, privately financed, and close to Marlins Park

http://www.espnfc.us/major-league-soccer/stor...

EKneezy
Atlanta
Post #43
Friday July 17, 2015 6:06pm

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 3,151
Great meeting with @Tomas_Regalado we have presented him our intentions to bring Futbol and a New soccer stadium in the former Orange Bowl.

From Marcelo Claure on Twitter

recycledhumans
DFWTX
Post #44
Wednesday September 9, 2015 9:30pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,467
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/34201047

BBC reporting that Beckham finally has a stadium site!

Great article that encompasses a lot about the game in the US, and is only around 1/8th about Becks and the stadium.

Mojofc
Post #45
Wednesday September 9, 2015 9:41pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 966
Original post from recycledhumans

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/34201047

BBC reporting that Beckham finally has a stadium site!

Great article that encompasses a lot about the game in the US, and is only around 1/8th about Becks and the stadium.


Garber bragging about having 5 homegrown players on the Dallas squad last weekend. How many of their first team guys were out due to it being an official FIFA date?

That's the best academy point he could come up with?
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