RECAPS
EXTRA TIME
YANKS ABROAD LOCKER ROOM
 
navi8132
New York
Post #121
Friday December 27, 2013 4:49pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 3,100
I am not that excited about him. But his development is worth watching.

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #122
Friday December 27, 2013 5:02pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 10,357
Original post from navi8132

I am not that excited about him. But his development is worth watching.


This kid has talent galore. People should be excited. Fast, intelligent, dribbles around players with ease, and he can pick a pass out of nothing.

Give me a good reason why you aren't too excited about him?

navi8132
New York
Post #123
Friday December 27, 2013 5:22pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 3,100
I should rephrase, I think he seems like an excellent prospect, but I stopped being excited about prospects as a general rule recently. It's just impossible to tell what will happen next. I think we can tell that he will make it as a professional soccer player, but I don't think anyone can predict anything beyond that. So I in general will not be excited about anyone. Even Julian Green (although I do think we should fight tooth and nail to get him naturally).

As far as prospects of his age, I think he is the #1 (age 19 prospects).

hamsamwich
Post #124
Friday December 27, 2013 5:26pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,143
Compare this to the comments from the coach of Hertha Berlin regarding young John Brooks:

I clipped this from an article I couldn't get the link to work:

Holmes came on as a substitute in the 58th minute with the Terriers a goal down to a Derby side who seemed set for an eighth successive win.

But United States-born Holmes set up Martin Paterson for an equaliser four minutes from time to cap all-action cameo display from the diminutive midfielder.

Heaping praise on the 19-year-old, who might have levelled himself in the 77th minute only to fail to make the most of a great chance, Robins said: "Duane's mature beyond his years.

"Quite a lot of players would have let that miss affect them. But not Duane, he just kept on going.

"Duane can be a handful for defenders. And it was certainly his introduction that gave us some spark. He's a real talent who has a great future."

Bshredder
Post #125
Friday December 27, 2013 5:56pm

Joined Aug 2011
Total Posts: 1,459
Video of his assist yesterday can be found at 1:50 of this clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TrLCaVg7GE

Bshredder
Post #126
Friday December 27, 2013 6:03pm

Joined Aug 2011
Total Posts: 1,459
Original post from navi8132

I should rephrase, I think he seems like an excellent prospect, but I stopped being excited about prospects as a general rule recently. It's just impossible to tell what will happen next. I think we can tell that he will make it as a professional soccer player, but I don't think anyone can predict anything beyond that. So I in general will not be excited about anyone. Even Julian Green (although I do think we should fight tooth and nail to get him naturally).

As far as prospects of his age, I think he is the #1 (age 19 prospects).


To me, it's not worth getting excited about Euro-based prospects who aren't seeing first team soccer. Guys like Pfeffer, Canouse, Gall, Gooch, are prospects that aren't worth getting excited about yet. The jump from youth soccer to first team soccer is enormous and most don't make it.

If a player is getting first team minutes, it's a completely different ballgame.

Guys like Arriola and Holmes have raised their status completely as prospects.

admsghs27
Post #127
Friday December 27, 2013 7:16pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 6,060
Im more excited about the prospects here in USA than the euro base ones. Im sure an 11 v 11 domestic vs abroad players the domestics would win easily. Sub 20s. Why they get more 1st team action.

Bshredder
Post #128
Friday December 27, 2013 7:33pm

Joined Aug 2011
Total Posts: 1,459
Original post from admsghs27

Im more excited about the prospects here in USA than the euro base ones. Im sure an 11 v 11 domestic vs abroad players the domestics would win easily. Sub 20s. Why they get more 1st team action.


There's no doubt that if you were to take an abroad YA U-21 team vs. an MLS U-21 team, MLS would win. There's just too much depth. Most YAs aren't seeing regular first team minutes at a level higher than MLS - Holmes, Brooks, Arriola are really it. Packwood hasn't since his injury).

The question then becomes how it changes moving forward. Most of the best MLS U-21s now will move abroad within 5 years.

admsghs27
Post #129
Friday December 27, 2013 7:46pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 6,060
I agree 100%. Mls has to raise the salary cap in order to keep those players in the league. My dream one day would be for USA to call a 23 mls based roster to a world cup and finsh in the top 4 even better if they win the world cup.

dolcem
Post #130
Friday December 27, 2013 8:59pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,805
The MLS teams the domestic U-21 players are of course going to be better than the YA U-21's because they are more likely to get PT. The internationally based yanks are at clubs that are more competitive than the MLS teams and, thus, get fewer minutes. Which of these groups is more likely to produce a really good player? Flores and Sonora are at the youth academies of Dortmund and Boca Juniors, respectively. These are academies that have produced players that we could only dream of playing for our NT. Does this mean they're going to be good? Of course not. And maybe Darlington Nagbe will be the first world class player the MLS produces. Of course it depends on the club they're at, but despite their age, I'm more excited about Flores, Sonora, and Lederman than anyone based domestically. Chances are none of those three will turn out to be NT material, but the upside is there.

Original post from admsghs27

I agree 100%. Mls has to raise the salary cap in order to keep those players in the league. My dream one day would be for USA to call a 23 mls based roster to a world cup and finsh in the top 4 even better if they win the world cup.


Why do we want to keep our young talent in the MLS? I would much rather have them go to places like the Eredevisie, with world class coaching staffs and the know-how to developing world class attacking talent. Depends entirely on the player but the goal of the MLS, at this point, is to become like the Eredevisie, a solid league that can export world-class talent (that can return when they're a bit older). Trying to hold onto all of our young players might not be good for our NT. This is Liga MX's problem. The salaries are so high that players stay there rather than going abroad. This does help the league but it keeps the NT from progressing, and I think if the clubs had the incentive to develop and send talent abroad, the league's level of play would only improve in the long run.
GET A CLUB TEAM
recycledhumans
DFWTX
Post #131
Friday December 27, 2013 11:54pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,467
@ dolcem, the simplest way to answer your "why do we want to keep young talent in MLS" question, in my humble opinion, is to say that instead of a 15-18 year old prospect going straight into a European academy, we can have a nice little buffer/cushion zone that will allow those kids to develop their professionalism rather than just their athleticism and skill.

That would require raising the level of our academies and also of the depth of squad at the average club.

dolcem
Post #132
Saturday December 28, 2013 6:10am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,805
Original post from recycledhumans

@ dolcem, the simplest way to answer your "why do we want to keep young talent in MLS" question, in my humble opinion, is to say that instead of a 15-18 year old prospect going straight into a European academy, we can have a nice little buffer/cushion zone that will allow those kids to develop their professionalism rather than just their athleticism and skill.

That would require raising the level of our academies and also of the depth of squad at the average club.


Well ideally they are playing in a youth academy from age 9 or 10 or so, either in an MLS academy or a European one (or Argentine or Brazilian; their academies are just as good as the top European ones). The question is where do they go after the academy. In Europe, they'd go to the reserve team and then maybe a loan to the second division and then to the first team. In the MLS, they go right to the senior team, and then they are playing for the result and nothing more. The coaches don't necessarily have a vested interest in developing them into a European type player, because if he gets sold it's only their loss. They are also pretty new to this type of thing (heck we've only had a professional league since '96, and youth academies fro a couple years). He'll be playing soccer that is only concerned with the result, because this is how American teams play.

If this kid were to play for a team in Argentina or Holland, he would have a different experience. He would be playing in a place where the coaches come from a culture with generations of knowledge. Their methods have been proven to work: the players that have come out of these leagues have been some of the best to ever grace the game. The teams do not only play for the result, they try to play attractive soccer. One of the reasons behind this is it is better at developing players. These teams' finances, in fact, rely on molding these kids into quality players that will garner transfer money from teams in the top 3-5 European leagues. They have their eye on the kid's development over his entire career: successfully growing this kind of talent will only convince bigger European teams to buy more of that team's players, which is necessary for that team's survival financially. In fact, these coaches are evaluated partially on how good the players they developed became, and since these structures have been around for generations, they know what they are doing.

This is less of the case for English clubs, who don't have good youth talent coming through the ranks (English youth academies are shit; less than 40% of EPL starting XI's are English!) but more importantly, are awash with cash and need immediate results. It makes a lot more sense for them to buy established players from other teams and leagues than to develop youth talent. This with other factors leads them to utilize a style of play that only focuses on the result. Playing 'pretty soccer' doesn't mean anything to them and the game is fast-paced and physical. You don't get much time on the ball. It's not a good environment for kids to develop in.

The American style of play is basically an imitation of the English version and we're still not at the point yet where teams are trying to play for anything more than the result. Well, Aron Winter tried, but that didn't work out (maybe it was his fault, maybe it was the black hole that is TFC). I've heard a lot about Caleb Porter trying to bring an attractive style to Portland but I don't see it. Anyway, my point is that the MLS doesn't have the track record of development that some of these other leagues do, so I'd prefer our best to be overseas, and then if that doesn't work out, for them to come back to the MLS.

Now if they need to learn some professionalism, than why not send them to the MLS on loan for a year or so? The problem with young MLS prospects is that they get tied up in contracts that are owned by the league and then can't leave when they are ready for the next step in their development. Considering how young soccer players develop (something Americans have a hard time grasping), this can be a big setback because every year counts. As soon as they have learned what they can in the MLS, they need to move on, and that only works if they are under contract somewhere else (with a team that only wants them to succeed at the highest level so they can make money off the transfer fee rather than a league that would prefer to keep its recognizable faces at home).
GET A CLUB TEAM
dolcem
Post #133
Saturday December 28, 2013 8:27am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,805
I'm sorry. I didn't realize that was going to be such a long post. It got away from me.

Summary: the best thing for a kid's development (the eye test and history prove it) is playing, from the academy to the pros, in one of these nations: Spain, Argentina, Brazil, Holland, Germany, France, or Portugal, though not necessarily in that order. Now if they want to learn some professionalism, maybe going to the MLS on loan at 17 or 18 is a good idea (depending on the type of player of course, some would fit well into the MLS, other wouldn't). But being under contract at an MLS team means you could be stuck there a while rather than moving up the ladder to one of those other places early on. Places that have grown infrastructure and experience for generations so they can mold players to be sold to the highest bidder. Additionally, the most competitive players at any age will want to play for the best club they can, and we should support this. I'm thrilled we have someone at La Masia (and Boca Juniors too), at those types of places they receive the world's best coaching and play alongside other prodigies their age. We have millions of soccer players in the US and there are always lots of late bloomers, the amount we 'lose' to other countries' academies is a drop in the bucket. Sorry I'm rambling again.
GET A CLUB TEAM
Bshredder
Post #134
Saturday December 28, 2013 3:33pm

Joined Aug 2011
Total Posts: 1,459
A big concern right now at Huddersfield is to downplay the expectations of Duane Holmes

Here is an article from today's Yorkshire post

Paterson urges caution over Holmes expectations

Here is a must read passage

----------------------------

MARTIN PATERSON has warned supporters not to demand too much from Huddersfield Town's outstanding prospect, Duane Holmes.

The teenage midfielder is the talk of the Town faithful following the manner of his step-up to the first team this season.

Holmes may have only started one game - the derby win over Leeds United - but the Academy graduate has produced a string of impressive cameo displays from the bench.

The latest came against in-form Derby County on Boxing Day, when the youngster helped change the game after being introduced just before the hour mark. The highlight came when setting up Paterson for the late equaliser that ended the Rams' run of seven straight wins.

Holmes is now pressing for a start at home to struggling Yeovil Town tomorrow. Paterson admits to being a big fan of his American-born team-mate but the striker is also urging caution.

He said: "We all know how talented Duane is, but he is only 19 and you have to be careful. If you use him too much and things don't go well, his head could drop and it could make things difficult.

"However, I think the fans here have an exciting time ahead of them - because I would pay to watch him every week.

"When he comes on, he sets goals up for fun - and that is tough.

"I don't think I could come on (and play) in the hole and start creating chances.

"He shifts well and goes past people. There is no doubt that he is a good player. We just have to bring him through properly.

USnLFCfan
Savannah GA
Post #135
Saturday December 28, 2013 6:32pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,410
Dolcem- Disagree, sure there are a ton of English club academies that aren't great considering the amount of them across all levels but to say it in a blanket statement is a bit naive. West Ham, Liverpool, Manchester United, and Arsenal are acknowledged across the world as top academies, even League One side Crewe gets respect.

Page 9 of 22
«« First « Previous 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13  Next » Last »»

With Jesse Marsch and David Wagner at the helms of teams in the top flight, YA will cover their exploits this season.
RECENT POSTS
YA Transfer Tracker
Yanks Face Relegation in England
Tale of Two Young Yanks in Europe
Wagner Nears Premier League Goal