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hamsamwich
Post #301
Monday January 14, 2019 3:08am

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,106
There was a bigger case to be made the year before when he lit up league one for scunthorpe, 90 mins every match.... similar to Gooch this year for Sunderland who I've seen mentioned as a candidate for nats minutes.

Only now when he is playing should Holmes be back in the picture. And like I said I'm a fan even when he was on loan in the championship with yeovil town back when. But the national team only has so many spots and they should be reserved for those playing with their clubs (or at least as a bench player for high level team), not a guy who isn't cracking 2nd tiger soccer.

Lilshmike
Post #302
Monday January 14, 2019 3:06pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,143
Original post from bjelks

So they played 24 Championship games in fall/ winter 2018 and Holmes appeared in nearly half of them.
That's regular in my books.
And because of MLS politics he couldn't get a call up over Trapp, Delgado, Acosta, Roldan, Bradley, Picault.
I'd even say even tho they play different positions Villafana and Sweat, have no business near a natl team roster and we'd be better converting at rb or wing midfielder than calling them.
Just pointing out, you're comparing guys who don't play the same position.

Holmes is a RM and sometimes CAM. Trapp, Acosta, and Bradley are CDMs. Picault is a LM. Villafana and Sweat are LBs. Maybe you could make a stretch for Delgado and Roldan, but they are CMs and sometimes play RM. If you want to make a case for Holmes to get a call up over another player, at least start with referencing guys who play the same position as him...

bjelks
Post #303
Monday January 14, 2019 6:55pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,199
Original post from db707

bjelks, your book is a compendium of nonsense. He made 1 league appearance as a sub before November (when our last friendlies were). He just started seeing the field regularly at the beginning of November. Were we supposed to call him in for the fall friendlies when he was just barely breaking into his club team? If he keeps playing regularly we can call him for the March matches.


I apologize. I misspoke on his fall 2018 appearances.
goalsense
bjelks
Post #304
Monday January 14, 2019 7:04pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,199
Original post from Lilshmike

Just pointing out, you're comparing guys who don't play the same position.

Holmes is a RM and sometimes CAM. Trapp, Acosta, and Bradley are CDMs. Picault is a LM. Villafana and Sweat are LBs. Maybe you could make a stretch for Delgado and Roldan, but they are CMs and sometimes play RM. If you want to make a case for Holmes to get a call up over another player, at least start with referencing guys who play the same position as him...


I grouped all midfielders together on purpose. I believe the best players should be called no matter the position and the tactic should be based off the best personnel, not manager preference.
Throughout 18, our rosters were disproportionately defensive midfielders and we obviously lacked attacking options.
The guys I listeed I feel are liabilities to the program no matter what position they're in and have proven to be very limited in the quality they offer.
So instead of throwing Sweat or Villa out there and saying there are no other options, I think a more effective plan would be picking a better all around player and converting someone else to a left back.
goalsense
cudevil
Post #305
Monday January 14, 2019 11:01pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 902
Original post from bjelks

I grouped all midfielders together on purpose. I believe the best players should be called no matter the position and the tactic should be based off the best personnel, not manager preference.
Throughout 18, our rosters were disproportionately defensive midfielders and we obviously lacked attacking options.
The guys I listeed I feel are liabilities to the program no matter what position they're in and have proven to be very limited in the quality they offer.
So instead of throwing Sweat or Villa out there and saying there are no other options, I think a more effective plan would be picking a better all around player and converting someone else to a left back.


That worked great for Klinnsman.

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #306
Monday January 14, 2019 11:13pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 10,320
Original post from cudevil

That worked great for Klinnsman.


I mean it did kind of work with Beasley. But for the most part it doesn't work.

cudevil
Post #307
Monday January 14, 2019 11:41pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 902
Original post from 2tone

I mean it did kind of work with Beasley. But for the most part it doesn't work.


Playing guys out of position was one of the biggest criticism of Klinnsman's approach.

bjelks
Post #308
Monday January 14, 2019 11:59pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,199
Original post from cudevil

Playing guys out of position was one of the biggest criticism of Klinnsman's approach.


Playing guys out of their natural position should be assessed on a case by case basis.
Beasley could play just about anywhere on the field.
In Klinsman's last game, he started Omar Gonzalez who wasn't good enough to be in the squad and Besler at left back, who was much too slow to play left back.
We could've easily played Fabian at left back, where he's had his most success with the national team and Besler at his natural CB.
goalsense
cudevil
Post #309
Tuesday January 15, 2019 12:21am

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 902
Original post from bjelks

Playing guys out of their natural position should be assessed on a case by case basis.
Beasley could play just about anywhere on the field.
In Klinsman's last game, he started Omar Gonzalez who wasn't good enough to be in the squad and Besler at left back, who was much too slow to play left back.
We could've easily played Fabian at left back, where he's had his most success with the national team and Besler at his natural CB.


Except we are weak on the wings and Fab was by far our best winger. Judged purely on talent, Besler and Omar in the back with Fab at the wing was probably part of our "best 11".

bjelks
Post #310
Tuesday January 15, 2019 1:16am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,199
I rather be weak on the wings than at fullback, our last line of defense.
I would add that Miazga even at that time was a more talented player than Gonzalez.
We could've played Pulisic at left wing who I believe was our best winger at the time and Gooch on the right.
goalsense
Lilshmike
Post #311
Tuesday January 15, 2019 2:55pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,143
Original post from bjelks

Playing guys out of their natural position should be assessed on a case by case basis.
Beasley could play just about anywhere on the field.
In Klinsman's last game, he started Omar Gonzalez who wasn't good enough to be in the squad and Besler at left back, who was much too slow to play left back.
We could've easily played Fabian at left back, where he's had his most success with the national team and Besler at his natural CB.
I like Fabian Johnson at LB, but by no means is that even close to being an accurate statement. Its not like he was a regular there for us, and if we are going to talk about "success" then that would most likely be at the WC 2014 where he was playing RB... not LB.

bjelks
Post #312
Tuesday January 15, 2019 3:38pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,199
Original post from Lilshmike

I like Fabian Johnson at LB, but by no means is that even close to being an accurate statement. Its not like he was a regular there for us, and if we are going to talk about "success" then that would most likely be at the WC 2014 where he was playing RB... not LB.


Actually Fab was a regular for us at left back during 2017 gold cup and 2016 Copa America.
And yes he's played both wing backs and both wing midfield positions.
But whether it's his natural position or he's filling in because of lack of options, he's been our best option at lb in my opinion.
goalsense
Lilshmike
Post #313
Tuesday January 15, 2019 3:48pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,143
Original post from bjelks

Actually Fab was a regular for us at left back during 2017 gold cup and 2016 Copa America.
And yes he's played both wing backs and both wing midfield positions.
But whether it's his natural position or he's filling in because of lack of options, he's been our best option at lb in my opinion.
Actually, he wasn't even on the roster for the 2017 Gold Cup.

He was, however, on the roster and played LB in the 2015 Gold Cup... where we famously finished 4th in fairly embarrassing fashion...

Look, I'm not disagreeing. I have stated plenty of times on this site that I think he is our best LB. But just because its your opinion that he is our best LB does in no way mean that that is where he has had his most success with the USMNT (as evidenced by the 2015 Gold Cup). I mean, thats just a blanket statement with nothing to back it up other than subjective personal opinions.

Enough about Fabian Johnson. This thread is about Duane Holmes.

hamsamwich
Post #314
Tuesday January 15, 2019 8:16pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,106
It's just hard to not rate a player who can dribble the ball with his head up and choose a good option. It's been a hard road for the technical but diminuative Holmes in rough and tough English football. But he's come out the other side and is a player now. If he continues this way it will almost be impossible for him not to get a callup.

hamsamwich
Post #315
Tuesday January 15, 2019 8:17pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,106
As for getting the best XI on the field and fitting a system around that, Berhalter has sort of made it clear you have to fit into his system and not vice versa. May limit some guys options who are clearly talented enough to play.

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