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IntheLou
Post #16
Sunday July 20, 2014 7:42pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 9
Original post from USAGunner

I've gone back and forth on the qualification slots. I think it boils down to while Concacaf has 3 teams better than anything Asia and Africa put out there it's the 4 and 5 spots where they are better.

Those continents (at least Africa) are much deeper than Concacaf. Until the "others" can get better, 3.5 is about right for the Concacaf.

FYI look at FIFA's ranking score system and they think Concacaf is better than Africa and Asia.


Actually, I totally agree with you about the depth, but, given the vagaries of qualifying, having 4 slots would help make sure those 3 very strong teams make it each year and give a 4th experience. Remember, Mexico needed the 0.5 this year, and no one would have wanted to see them stay home.

USAGunner
West Palm Beach
Post #17
Monday July 21, 2014 3:27pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 209
Original post from IntheLou

Actually, I totally agree with you about the depth, but, given the vagaries of qualifying, having 4 slots would help make sure those 3 very strong teams make it each year and give a 4th experience. Remember, Mexico needed the 0.5 this year, and no one would have wanted to see them stay home.


Who are you kidding? 90% of USA fans would have wanted to see them stay home. (I for one).
www.westpalmbeachchurchofchrist.com
Kamphgruppe
Michigan
Post #18
Monday July 21, 2014 7:22pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 279
Original post from IntheLou

Actually, I totally agree with you about the depth, but, given the vagaries of qualifying, having 4 slots would help make sure those 3 very strong teams make it each year and give a 4th experience. Remember, Mexico needed the 0.5 this year, and no one would have wanted to see them stay home.


I think Concacaf has proven (due to past 3 or 4 WC's) that we deserve 4 spots. I think we have a few teams that could be competitive by 2018. Honduras, Panama, Canada, or Jamaica.

MSantoine
Post #19
Monday July 21, 2014 9:17pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 2,190
Original post from Kamphgruppe

I think Concacaf has proven (due to past 3 or 4 WC's) that we deserve 4 spots. I think we have a few teams that could be competitive by 2018. Honduras, Panama, Canada, or Jamaica.


You realize that Costa Rica was the first non-USA/MX CONCACAF team to win a world cup match against a non-Asian opponent since 1990. Over the last 4 world cups (98-2010) CONCACAF was a combined 10W-12D-24L with 5 of those wins coming vs Asian foes. Take out Mexico & USA and CONCACAF is 2W-3D-10L (lose 2/3 of the times) with the only wins vs Asian foes.

CONCACAF needs to show more than one tourney that the non-US/MX teams can beat world class caliber teams, and not just pick off equally weak Asian teams.

Kamphgruppe
Michigan
Post #20
Monday July 21, 2014 10:19pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 279
Original post from MSantoine

You realize that Costa Rica was the first non-USA/MX CONCACAF team to win a world cup match against a non-Asian opponent since 1990. Over the last 4 world cups (98-2010) CONCACAF was a combined 10W-12D-24L with 5 of those wins coming vs Asian foes. Take out Mexico & USA and CONCACAF is 2W-3D-10L (lose 2/3 of the times) with the only wins vs Asian foes.

CONCACAF needs to show more than one tourney that the non-US/MX teams can beat world class caliber teams, and not just pick off equally weak Asian teams.


I think it's fair to say that if you take away the top 2 teams of any confederation they won't preform as well. Concacaf despite you stats has been the third best confederation for at least the last two WC's. It's time to give us a guaranteed 4th spot.

MSantoine
Post #21
Tuesday July 22, 2014 11:53am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 2,190
Original post from Kamphgruppe

I think it's fair to say that if you take away the top 2 teams of any confederation they won't preform as well. Concacaf despite you stats has been the third best confederation for at least the last two WC's. It's time to give us a guaranteed 4th spot.


Which two teams are you taking away from Europe? The past two world cups UEFA has sent 10 teams to the knockout stages, and that doesnt include Italy.

CONMEBOL- has sent three different teams to the semis the last two world cups, and has Colombia and Chile as well.

Africa has sent Algeria, Nigeria and Ghana, while Ivory Coast and South Africa have also recorded wins. And if you go back to 2002 you also have Senegal's QF run (just like CR's) and Cameroon won a game.

USA/MX are on board if not better than any African nation. Bu Africa's 3-10 is head and shoulders above CONCACAF's. Hell Egypt may have been the 2nd or 3rd best CAF team and they didn't make it. They also have teams like Ethiopia, Burkina Faso, Guinea, Mali, and Niger on the rise. CONCACAF has US, MX, CR, then Honduras and Panama as teams that wouldnt embarrass themselves in a world cup. Jamaica, El Salvador, Belize, those are World Cup caliber teams? No one wants to watch Germany beat Trinidad and Tobago 6-0. THose are the teams that need to get better for CONCACAF to deserve more spots. The Hex is set up where the best teams should rise to the top. If US or MX cant finish in the top 3-4 then they dont deserve to be in that world cup.

Now that said under the current format I would eliminate OFC and merge it into Asia. Let them all join in the minnow rounds like the other non-footballing countries. Leave them at 4.5, give SA the extra half spot to give them the auto spot and let our 4th always play Asia 5th. Let the results stand for themselves. If Panama, USA, Mx, etc cant beat Jordan, New Zealand, Oman, Qatar then so be it

Kamphgruppe
Michigan
Post #22
Tuesday July 22, 2014 4:28pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 279
Original post from MSantoine

Which two teams are you taking away from Europe? The past two world cups UEFA has sent 10 teams to the knockout stages, and that doesnt include Italy.

CONMEBOL- has sent three different teams to the semis the last two world cups, and has Colombia and Chile as well.

Africa has sent Algeria, Nigeria and Ghana, while Ivory Coast and South Africa have also recorded wins. And if you go back to 2002 you also have Senegal's QF run (just like CR's) and Cameroon won a game.

USA/MX are on board if not better than any African nation. Bu Africa's 3-10 is head and shoulders above CONCACAF's. Hell Egypt may have been the 2nd or 3rd best CAF team and they didn't make it. They also have teams like Ethiopia, Burkina Faso, Guinea, Mali, and Niger on the rise. CONCACAF has US, MX, CR, then Honduras and Panama as teams that wouldnt embarrass themselves in a world cup. Jamaica, El Salvador, Belize, those are World Cup caliber teams? No one wants to watch Germany beat Trinidad and Tobago 6-0. THose are the teams that need to get better for CONCACAF to deserve more spots. The Hex is set up where the best teams should rise to the top. If US or MX cant finish in the top 3-4 then they dont deserve to be in that world cup.

Now that said under the current format I would eliminate OFC and merge it into Asia. Let them all join in the minnow rounds like the other non-footballing countries. Leave them at 4.5, give SA the extra half spot to give them the auto spot and let our 4th always play Asia 5th. Let the results stand for themselves. If Panama, USA, Mx, etc cant beat Jordan, New Zealand, Oman, Qatar then so be it


There is no argument of taking spots away from Europe or South America. I said we have been the 3rd best confederation for at least the last two WC and I believe it goes back as far as 4, not entirely sure. Africa and Asia get more spots and we have been the better confederation. I get your point that it has been only 2 teams for most of that run. I do believe that Honduras, Panama, Jamaica, and Canada are = > most Asia/Africa teams. Africa does always field a couple of very strong teams, not sure it merits 1.5 more spots than we get. Personally I believe that we should get the .5 spot from Asia

MSantoine
Post #23
Tuesday July 22, 2014 5:12pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 2,190
Original post from Kamphgruppe

There is no argument of taking spots away from Europe or South America. I said we have been the 3rd best confederation for at least the last two WC and I believe it goes back as far as 4, not entirely sure. Africa and Asia get more spots and we have been the better confederation. I get your point that it has been only 2 teams for most of that run. I do believe that Honduras, Panama, Jamaica, and Canada are = > most Asia/Africa teams. Africa does always field a couple of very strong teams, not sure it merits 1.5 more spots than we get. Personally I believe that we should get the .5 spot from Asia


I guess it depends what you think deserves more bids. If you think CONCACAF should have more bids to make sure Mexico and US always qualify thats fine. If you think bids should be based on making sure weak teams dont qualify, as I do, then depth is what you should look at. Going off of ELO rankings, Honduras is the 5th CONCACAF team and is rated number 60. CAF has 7 countries ranked higher than Honduras. Asia has 7 teams ranked higher. If you go by FIFA rankings CONCACAF has 7 nations in the top 100. Africa has 28 and Asia has 13.

Thats the issue. FIFA doesnt want to see Haiti in the world cup at the expense of a better quality African or Asian team. Its not up to USA, its up to the Caribbean islands and Central American nations to develop their teams and start competing.

If I were running FIFA I'd combine all the Americas and make the world cup have 40 teams. That'd give you 6 really strong American teams (USA, Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay, Colombia) another 6 or so World Cup caliber teams (Honduras, CR, Panama, Ecuador, Chile, Paraguay) and teams that can hold their own at home (Guatemala, Venezuela, Bolivia, Peru, Jamaica). You could make the arguement that they'd be deserving of 12 bids (overall quality and depth is just below Europe which will be up to 15 bids) Then Africa could increase up to 7 bids and then Asia/OFC merge and have the remaining 6 bids. If its staying at 32 teams then just take 2 bids from each fed and you are left with 13 euro, 10 americas, 5 africa (stays as is) and 4 Asia (loses its half).

Id think the South American teams would'nt oppose this as teams like Paraguay, Venezuela, Bolivia have a better chance of qualifying and all SA teams get a boost due to American Media and TV deals. It also would be a step in aligning CONCACAF Champs League with the Suda Americana to become a tourney equalivalent or above UCL league and help in bringing better players to MLS.

Kamphgruppe
Michigan
Post #24
Tuesday July 22, 2014 5:29pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 279
Original post from MSantoine

I guess it depends what you think deserves more bids. If you think CONCACAF should have more bids to make sure Mexico and US always qualify thats fine. If you think bids should be based on making sure weak teams dont qualify, as I do, then depth is what you should look at. Going off of ELO rankings, Honduras is the 5th CONCACAF team and is rated number 60. CAF has 7 countries ranked higher than Honduras. Asia has 7 teams ranked higher. If you go by FIFA rankings CONCACAF has 7 nations in the top 100. Africa has 28 and Asia has 13.

Thats the issue. FIFA doesnt want to see Haiti in the world cup at the expense of a better quality African or Asian team. Its not up to USA, its up to the Caribbean islands and Central American nations to develop their teams and start competing.

If I were running FIFA I'd combine all the Americas and make the world cup have 40 teams. That'd give you 6 really strong American teams (USA, Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay, Colombia) another 6 or so World Cup caliber teams (Honduras, CR, Panama, Ecuador, Chile, Paraguay) and teams that can hold their own at home (Guatemala, Venezuela, Bolivia, Peru, Jamaica). You could make the arguement that they'd be deserving of 12 bids (overall quality and depth is just below Europe which will be up to 15 bids) Then Africa could increase up to 7 bids and then Asia/OFC merge and have the remaining 6 bids. If its staying at 32 teams then just take 2 bids from each fed and you are left with 13 euro, 10 americas, 5 africa (stays as is) and 4 Asia (loses its half).

Id think the South American teams would'nt oppose this as teams like Paraguay, Venezuela, Bolivia have a better chance of qualifying and all SA teams get a boost due to American Media and TV deals. It also would be a step in aligning CONCACAF Champs League with the Suda Americana to become a tourney equalivalent or above UCL league and help in bringing better players to MLS.


I am not worried about the US qualifying at all. I believe that teams in ConCaCaf are growing stronger. I think we can send 4 teams to every world cup and none will embarrass themselves. When it comes to the lowest team to qualify from Africa, Asia or Concacaf it probably does not mater which one goes. None will have a strong chance to win or even make the round of 16. I simply believe that we have been the third best confederation for at least 2 WC's and possible up to 4, and that spot should go to Concacaf.

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