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dolcem
Post #166
Thursday October 3, 2013 10:04pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,045
Original post from rainORshine

so MANY things wrong with this

xavi plays in a 2 man middle with barcelona and spain? are you nuts?

xabi alonso is "slight" and "not good defensively"? he is 6' 160lb. he is very similar to michael bradley - can play a 6 or an 8

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1775326-t...

notice the words "sturdy physicality" and "called upon to win balls and slow down the opposition's attack"

dude, unless you want to say SOMETHING... ANYTHING that make some sense, I really cant keep reading your posts


If you're going to put put insults in your post and claim that nothing I wrote made sense, you better have damn good examples, and yours fell quite short. Misquoting someone and then using an article to back up your other point (while completely misrepresenting it) while completely ignoring the crux of my argument does not exactly constitute good evidence.

Where in my post did I say Xavi played in a two man midfield for Barca? You're just making shit up.

Xavi played as one of the two CM's in a 4-5-1 for a lot of the Euro 2008, where Spain was the best team to ever have played the tournament. He also got player of the tournament. How could you forget that? He has played this role before a lot for the Spanish NT.

160 is damn skinny for 6'0". Being tall and skinny isn't helpful because shorter guys with a lower center of gravity can get the bettet of you. But this isn't an American sport though, we don't really look at a player's height and weight much in soccer. How they use it is what matters...some of the best holding midfielders were not that big and there are also a lot of bigger players who are easily pushed off the ball. 

Anyway, the fact that you emphasize "sturdy physicality" and "winning balls" as Xabi Alonso's primary traits shows that you don't understand his game at all (or were just arguing for the sake of arguing)...he is a deep-lying playmaker, he is NOT a #6 like Khedira. What Xabi Alonso provides defensively (and he isn't that good defensively, the article was pretty generous) is a fraction of the importance of what he really has done he is Real Madrid's most important player besides Ronaldo. 

Xabi Alonso is as good of a passer as we have ever seen and he links the defense to the attacking midfielders. When he doesn't play, Real Madrid suffers. A lot. They have no way to move the ball effectively from the back to the front, to put together good passing and maintain possession. Their loss to Osasuna the season before last was the perfect example of that.

The article of course mentioned this but you ignored that as well, choosing to basically describe him as a #6. This demonstrates a total lack of understanding of who he is as a player. If he played as a holding midfielder rather than a deep-lying playmaker, it would be a waste of his talent. It's obvious that he's not a #6 but a deep-lying playmaker because he is always paired with a #6 (Mascherano, Khedira, or Busquests on the NT) not with another deep-lying playmaker.

The best 4-5-1's tend to have someone in that role. Real Madrid is the best example and Bayern, is of course, one too. Schweinsteiger does as well for Bayern, though since they play more direct and through the air he does it in a different way (changing though now that Pep is in charge). Chelsea, though, is really struggling because even though they play a 4-5-1 and have very good CM's, none of them are deep-lying playmakers, and they are totally unable to maintain possession and pass the ball forward from the back to the attacking players (e.g. the first half against Tottenham). I think the USNT struggles with the same problem.

Xabi Alonso is the classic deep-lying playmaker and it's the best thing you can have in a 4-5-1. Torres is our only guy who naturally fits that position. He is the American (homeless version of) Xabi Alonso. We wouldn't be playing Torres for his defensive capabilities (and he's actually a pretty good tackler, he's just small), we'd be playing him for his technique and passing abilities. And his capacity to help us move the ball from the defense to the attacking players and help us maintain possession (something our team has issues with that Klinsmann is trying to improve on). Leave the tackling to Bradley, he's great at it and has a great motor. He would have to hang back a bit though because Torres isn't really a holding midfielder. But not as much as he'd have to hang back if Jones, Kljestan, or Diskerud were playing, since they play higher up the pitch.

Now I'd be fine with Bradley playing as a dedicated #6 with one of those three playing as the box-to-box #8, but the fans wouldn't be and neither would Bradley. He wants to play as the #8 and would be very upset I think if he were asked to play the #6, which is exactly what happened at Mo'gladbach. The fans also love him as a #8. People on here say that it's absolutely necessary that he plays that role for us. And if he plays that role, or even hangs back a bit and plays as a deep-lying playmaker, we need another CM playing deep as well. That's either Cameron (needed in defense) or Torres. All of our other good CM's play farther forward.
NO ONE GIVES A SHIT ABOUT WHAT LINEUP YOU USE IN FIFA
rainORshine
Post #167
Thursday October 3, 2013 10:10pm

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 1,783
Original post from dolcem

If you're going to put put insults in your post and claim that nothing I wrote made sense, you better have damn good examples, and yours fell quite short. Misquoting someone and then using an article to back up your other point (while completely misrepresenting it) while completely ignoring the crux of my argument does not exactly constitute good evidence.

Where in my post did I say Xavi played in a two man midfield for Barca? You're just making shit up.

Xavi played as one of the two CM's in a 4-5-1 for a lot of the Euro 2008, where Spain was the best team to ever have played the tournament. He also got player of the tournament. How could you forget that? He has played this role before a lot for the Spanish NT.

160 is damn skinny for 6'0". This isn't an American sport though, we don't really look at a player's height and weight much in soccer. How they use it is what matters...some of the best holding midfielders were not that big and there are also a lot of bigger players who are easily pushed off the ball.

Anyway, the fact that you emphasize "sturdy physicality" and "winning balls" as Xabi Alonso's primary traits shows that you don't understand his game at all (or were just arguing for the sake of arguing)...he is a deep-lying playmaker, he is NOT a #6 like Khedira. What Xabi Alonso provides defensively (and he isn't that good defensively, the article was pretty generous) is a fraction of the importance of what he really has done he is Real Madrid's most important player besides Ronaldo.

Xabi Alonso is as good of a passer as we have ever seen and he links the defense to the attacking midfielders. When he doesn't play, Real Madrid suffers. A lot. They have no way to move the ball effectively from the back to the front, to put together good passing and maintain possession. Their loss to Osasuna the season before last was the perfect example of that.

The article of course mentioned this but you ignored that as well, choosing to basically describe him as a #6. This demonstrates a total lack of understanding of who he is as a player. If he played as a holding midfielder rather than a deep-lying playmaker, it would be a waste of his talent. It's obvious that he's not a #6 but a deep-lying playmaker because he is always paired with a #6 (Mascherano, Khedira, or Busquests on the NT) not with another deep-lying playmaker.

The best 4-5-1's tend to have someone in that role. Real Madrid is the best example and Bayern, is of course, one too. Schweinsteiger does as well for Bayern, though since they play more direct and through the air he does it in a different way (changing though now that Pep is in charge). Chelsea, though, is really struggling because even though they play a 4-5-1 and have very good CM's, none of them are deep-lying playmakers, and they are totally unable to maintain possession and pass the ball forward from the back to the attacking players (e.g. the first half against Tottenham). I think the USNT struggles with the same problem.

Xabi Alonso is the classic deep-lying playmaker and it's the best thing you can have in a 4-5-1. Torres is our only guy who naturally fits that position. He is the American (homeless version of) Xabi Alonso. We wouldn't be playing Torres for his defensive capabilities (and he's actually a pretty good tackler, he's just small), we'd be playing him for his technique and passing abilities. And his capacity to help us move the ball from the defense to the attacking players and help us maintain possession (something our team has issues with that Klinsmann is trying to improve on). Leave the tackling to Bradley, he's great at it and has a great motor. He would have to hang back a bit though because Torres isn't really a holding midfielder. But not as much as he'd have to hang back if Jones, Kljestan, or Diskerud were playing, since they play higher up the pitch.

Now I'd be fine with Bradley playing as a dedicated #6 with one of those three playing as the box-to-box #8, but the fans wouldn't be and neither would Bradley. He wants to play as the #8 and would be very upset I think if he were asked to play the #6, which is exactly what happened at Mo'gladbach. The fans also love him as a #8. People on here say that it's absolutely necessary that he plays that role for us. And if he plays that role, or even hangs back a bit and plays as a deep-lying playmaker, we need another CM playing deep as well. That's either Cameron (needed in defense) or Torres. All of our other good CM's play farther forward.

But this is all discourse as I think Klinsmann will have to use Cameron in defense and will either pair Bradley with one of our other #6 options (Beckerman or Williams) or one of the #8's (Jones, and if he stops getting PT, Kljestan or Diskerud). Our best option would of course be to pair Cameron with Bradley (that way Bradley can do his thing) but we need Cameron in defense. After that it would be pairing Bradley with a deep-lying playmaker (Torres). Then after that we could play Bradley with a crappy #6 (Beckerman or Williams) or a #8 (Jones, Kljestan, or Diskerud). I have a feeling we're going to see either a Jones/Bradley or a Beckerman/Bradley combo. Not pleased about it but I get where he's coming from.


i did not read all this, but we just disagree as usual.

reading last couple sentences - you clearly disagree with what JK is doing. i agree

dolcem
Post #168
Thursday October 3, 2013 10:25pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,045
Original post from rainORshine

i did not read all this, but we just disagree as usual.

reading last couple sentences - you clearly disagree with what JK is doing. i agree


It's a very tough decision to make. Look at how many pages the Jones/Bradley thread has. Every poster here has a different idea of who should play in the middle. Since I recognize this, I won't get too mad if JK doesn't pick my guys. As long as I understand where he's coming from and like the technical direction the team is taking (both the case), I won't complain about the coaching or the roster selections. Everyone has a different ideal 23 and starting eleven and it's not something you can fight too much.

One thing I am for sure about is that out of Bradley, Jones, Kljestan, and Diskerud, you can only have one on the field at a time. Unless Bradley plays as a #6, in which case, you could play one of those three alongside him. But again, the fans and Bradley wouldn't like that. Klinsmann will probably have to play with two #8's. I understand and don't blame him too much, his hands are tied a bit, but I don't like it.
NO ONE GIVES A SHIT ABOUT WHAT LINEUP YOU USE IN FIFA
rainORshine
Post #169
Thursday October 3, 2013 10:57pm

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 1,783
Original post from dolcem

It's a very tough decision to make. Look at how many pages the Jones/Bradley thread has. Every poster here has a different idea of who should play in the middle. Since I recognize this, I won't get too mad if JK doesn't pick my guys. As long as I understand where he's coming from and like the technical direction the team is taking (both the case), I won't complain about the coaching or the roster selections. Everyone has a different ideal 23 and starting eleven and it's not something you can fight too much.

One thing I am for sure about is that out of Bradley, Jones, Kljestan, and Diskerud, you can only have one on the field at a time. Unless Bradley plays as a #6, in which case, you could play one of those three alongside him. But again, the fans and Bradley wouldn't like that. Klinsmann will probably have to play with two #8's. I understand and don't blame him too much, his hands are tied a bit, but I don't like it.


JKs intentions are clear about who he chooses to partner bradley
1) jones
2/3) beckerman / cameron
- with MB out JK chose cameron @ CR but he was poor and then beckerman took his place v mexico and was not poor. so i agree, beckerman has the edge. especially since cameron plays RB at club, not CM.

jones has generally been a defensible pick... until now. jones' form is clearly suffering and it looks entirely plausible that he gets limited playing time the rest of the season (not a certainty, but reasonable possibility)

if JKs back-up plan is really to go with kyle beckerman (who will turn 32 before world cup by the way) OR cameron, who is not actually a CM - without at least giving kljestan a reasonable look ... that is hard to understand

equally hard to understand is that JK has had 40 games to get kljestan a decent look (say, a handful of starts) but has opted instead go with guys like beckerman and edu time and time again - 27 total starts in CM. the only reason edu is not now #2 or 3 on the depth chart is because he got hurt.

i get that JK wants this "type" of player (jones, edu, williams, beckerman all cut from the same mold - much more brawn than skill/finesse) but does JK not have a responsibility to fully understand how kljestan MIGHT be able to help this team?

now we are 8 months out from brazil, WCQ is in the books (essentially) and we STILL do not have a very good idea of what the 2012/13 version of kljestan may be able to offer the USMNT

boooo

admsghs27
Post #170
Thursday October 3, 2013 11:39pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,293
Mix will get plenty of minutes on the next games.. Wouldn't be suprised to see him get a start.. Jones idk how healthy or fit he is...

skangles
DC
Post #171
Friday October 4, 2013 2:20am

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 2,004
When will the roster be released?

blaise213
San Francisco CA
Post #172
Friday October 4, 2013 2:28am

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 1,367
If I were klinsmann I would call a mixed squad of youngsters to face Jamaica and the old retired national team players to face Panama, so mexico gets eliminated !!!!

Starting XI vs Jamaica

----Boyd---Johannsson----

-Donovan--Adu-Diskerud--Arriola-

-FJ--Brooks(one arm)-Gonzo---Lichaj--

-------Guzan-------

Starting XI vs Panama

----Wondolowski----McBride----

-Beasley--Mastroeni-Reyna--Stewart-

-Hejduk--Lalas--Pope---Bornstein--

-------Friedel-------

navi8132
Post #173
Friday October 4, 2013 3:14am

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 2,014
LMAO. The most unlikely part of those formations is Adu.

chillguy1992
Post #174
Friday October 4, 2013 4:12am

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 462
Original post from skangles

When will the roster be released?


Sunday sunday sunday. US soccer confirmed they would be called up this weekend due to waiting on injured players. Every other weekend callup for klinsmann has been on a sunday. Its the day after most players in europe have played games and if worst case scenario player gets injured you can immideatly make a change.

Jglaube
California
Post #175
Friday October 4, 2013 5:18am

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 52
Blaise123 with his Adu predictions again. LOL! He hasn't played in months dude. Knock it off, its exhausting.

admsghs27
Post #176
Friday October 4, 2013 5:27am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,293
Original post from Jglaube

Blaise123 with his Adu predictions again. LOL! He hasn't played in months dude. Knock it off, its exhausting.


Hmmm I think Blaise is always Blazed out thats why he talks nonsense... Drugs, alcohol kill brain cells bro lol...

Lykou11601
Post #177
Friday October 4, 2013 5:29am

Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts: 122
It was probably a joke guy...

admsghs27
Post #178
Friday October 4, 2013 7:29am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,293
Original post from Lykou11601

It was probably a joke guy...


Naa this has been going on for months.. His name gives him away.. He talks nonsense...

chris_thebassplayer
San Jose
Post #179
Friday October 4, 2013 8:49am

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 308
Wait! What! Blaise, you've fast tracked poor Wondow to the retirement bin...Dude, I gut laughed.

You're going to hear it from Techskillz for disrespecting the pride of Bahia.

chris_thebassplayer
San Jose
Post #180
Friday October 4, 2013 9:00am

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 308
Oops, too sleepy, Adu was in the other 11. Now I'm going to hear it from Techskillz.

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